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geocacher
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Re: again

Post by geocacher »

David Leikvold wrote: Simultaneous runs are not "extremely foolish", with a one mile separation anyone could share the tracks safely.


David,

Reread my response. You can't safely put rescue or medical personell on the track or perform the necessary chase role performed by Southern Rescue for fast fire response and extrication for the faster cars by doing what you propose.

It can not work. It can not be made to work.

Safety has to be the top priority where through the simple fact that we are so far removed from timely medical treatment injuries sustained here have a far greater chance of fatality or significant morbidity than if they occurred at any other motorsport facility in Australia.

Regards,

Dave
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geocacher
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Post by geocacher »

gidge348 wrote:330 runs divided by 130 competitors equals an average of 2.5 runs for the week or one run every 2 days


That's a little misleading. We didn't start racing until mid/late Tuesday afternoon.

That means we only raced for about 2.75 days.

Furthermore there were quite a number of people - particularly bikes and to a lesser extent cars that I registered at the start line for their 125, 150 & 175 license passes before the end of Wednesday. That suggests to me that those with vehicles that required less work between runs, (or were not still being built, completed or reworked to pass scrutineering in the pits,) got in far more runs than those that were still being worked on.

It's also a widely held view by many I spoke to who have been to far more events than I, that those who stay until the end of the week and don't break their vehicle early on, or hold off running on the Monday & Tuesday get to run far more often in the last days of the event after those who have packed up or blown up have gone home or become spectators.

I'd be interested to know who got the most runs for the event and how many.

That said, I'm not detracting from the fact that the prestage queue reached "Kingoonya" or suggesting that more runs is not better, but be fair if you are quoting figures which reflect on those managing and volunteering, don't average over a week that which did not take place over a week for reasons controlled only by the weather gods and the gods that hold big horsepower engines together for a few miles.

Dave
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jrbcastle
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Post by jrbcastle »

DON NOBLE wrote:OK OK . heres my next 2 bobs (20c) worth .
Take a look at most motor sports , and whats the highlights they show most on TV , biffo and smasho and replayed 5 times . We dont want any of that . We minimse the risks as much as possible so there will be no incidents . One car at a time minimises the risk , lets keep it that way .
From a spectators point of view , more cars down the track would be great , but the spectators are sitting safely on the side lines .
Unless your a diehard drylake racing fan , the sport can be exciting as watching grass grow , and for most they would have had enough after a day . Peoples span of attention is a lot less these days in the world of instant gratification . 5 day test matches shrink to 20/20 matches . Super cars , grand prix , speedway ,indy cars , basketball , football , all seem to resort to tits and bums shielas , fireworks , and all sorts of whoopy doo to keep the troops amused when the short span of attention has elapsed .
Hope you can see what I,m getting at , sure we could make the sport more exciting , but at greater risks . And no we dont want Bob Ellis and his famous dancing sheep troupe , even tho there are some honeys like this bad girl :D
.Image
Hey Don i a bit worried about you ,you've giving up racing you posted this picture and going to Neeew Ziiland to live don't believe everthing Bob's told you :shock: :shock: :shock:
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BOB ELLIS
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Post by BOB ELLIS »

It's OK John,the "bad girl" in the photo is actually one of my old girlfriends mum.Don loves her,and if that keeps an old man happy,Who are we to get in the way of true love?? She stiil has nice legs though!!
outbacktrev
Posts: 333
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 7:35 pm
Location: Whyalla not far from Lake G

Post by outbacktrev »

Hi ALL!
This is now my 2bobs worth :lol:
I provide the repeater and various communications systems that we use at the Lake and have done for some years. Things, as they do, tend to improve with time :shock: The crucial communications between Starter, Timer, Event Director and Emergency crews are now very good. Mr Geochaser Dave, our illustrious starter (Mr Davies, I repect my elders) was using a full 5watt ICOM commercial radio with a reasonably upmarket NC microphone. As you would be aware through your employment there are required operating procedures for most pieces of equipment and when this was being followed communications between starter and timer was faultless (Mr Cooke will atest to this). After a long hot day for our senior starter he tends to forget procedure which creates communications issues. Earmuffs and headsets with noise cancelling facilities are very expensive (upward of $1000.00) and I don't beleive is warranted for a once a year event but if anybody has one they are willing to pass on to me I will only happily adapt it to our radios. We use channel 8 UHF CB radio as it is the only repeater channel unused in the area and to have our own frequency would be cost prohibitive.
With regard to phonetics, could not agree more with you, you teach him I've given up :oops:

Mr Leikvold you are either an accountant or statistition as your numbers are great on paper but in practice are flawed as can be seen by the varying responses from people who have attended the Lake more than once and have been involved in this sport for many years :idea:

I spent considerable time at the "prestage" area and I was amazed at how such a simple task of converting from a single file line to double file line created some much turmoil. When people did get the gist of this they were told, by me in the staging lane, their grid position on arrival at the start line, I know its exciting and all that but if you can't remeber a single digit number for about 5 minutes I don't think racing is for you. :idea: As for cards and chalk boards and all that caper it would only lead to confuse more and complicate a very simple system that has been mooted for the last couple of years but hasn't had an opportunity to be tried until our recent event. :D Lets work on the KISS principal (Keep It Simple Stupid) :roll: Of all the time I spent at "prestage" (most of the week) , approx 99%, of people reckon the NEW prestage was excellent, great, sh!thot etc only a couple had a gripe and when things were explained were generally happy. I only had a spit at one person all week which was pretty good I thought :)

Here's another idea open for discussion :!: Lets break the meeting in two like they do in Boneville (as a lot of people use Boneville as a reference for ideas) Lets have a car, lakester, truck meeting only and a Motorcycle meeting only this would halve the entries and double the amount of runs people would have :wink:

Well these thoughts and comments will not doubt prompt some reaction go for it :!:

Cheers,
Trevor #298
Dr Goggles
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Location: Right behind you Chief !

just because........

Post by Dr Goggles »

here's my two bobs worth.

I thought the pre-stage arrangement was pretty good. That is because I'm a half owner/driver...if I was a lone wolf I'd be less happy, we always had enough people to stand next to and push our car....if you're Patma , it could get tedious. For outfits like us there is a benefit that most wouldn't see. It is very difficult to strap our driver in, it takes two people about three or four minutes . At one point our battery decided to go under just as we were called , we had to change it at the line.....that took ten minutes.This may not seem like a big deal but sitting fully suited in our tank is an unpleasant experience if there is no air movement.So , going to the line in a group of ten was handy because three times out of our four runs we said" we'll go last".

There have been occasional instances over the last few meets where people have decided to try their hand at pushing in. The greatest proponent didn't come this year, maybe there was something wrong with her buzz-box however others did. A guy on a bike seemed preoccupied with it, on our first run he was lined up about six back in prestage , by the time we got to the front he was at the very front of the group we were at the back of, so he did OK. Frankly I couldn't be bothered challenging him,he was a first timer, didn't run very hard and with any luck he didn't like it and won't come back...there were others.

The communication ain't perfect , there were four drivers credited with driving our car, in reality there were only two.....go figure.

Two meets sounds like a whizz bang idea but first we might want to think about a few things.

Why separate bikes and cars?

when...
1./ Bikes clear the track quicker than cars.
2./ at a glance speeds are evenly spread b/w cars and bikes
3./ long course cars take the most time of all
4./Bikes are a good source of entry fees because of the cheaper set up costs.Almost without exception (Matty) cheaply built up cars are boring and pointless.


Why is two meets better than one big one?

when
1./ we'd only pay one surveyor's fee
2./ the canteen still only has to be staffed for a week, for greater through-put
3./media coverage isn't diluted
4./we pay one access fee
5./ what happens when the first meet is rained out???

and the big one.....

Who is going to run it?...and where on earth are the volunteers going to come from?

There have been mentions that a private meet could be the go......methinks that the risks are too great and the rewards too small for anyone with enough readies to go near it..........

The fact is we're all one big family and we have to get along.Don't ask me my personal opinions on what are the most and least precious entries out there , they will differ from yours.

This game is about going fast. If it was the fastest then we could all stay home. There are hundreds of classes , they give people the chance to wring the last drop out of whatever they've built or bought whether it is a big block Chev or a postie. If you want to turn up on a stocker , so be it ,if special construction and aero are your thing come on down, if you want to build a mountain motor and stuff it in a car that was mass produced for looks alone then go crazy ....you've paid your entry like everyone else. Circuit cars, trucks,roundy round cars, drag bikes , chook-chasers, they can all park right alongside Al Fountain and wait their turn to get a time slip.

Who's gonna be the judge of what's a real landspeed entry and what's not because there are many dedicated bikes and many dedicated cars........It seems we don't have street car anymore, but we have PP bikes...is that what people don't like?

I'll say this , if there was going to be two meets I'd vote for a special construction meet with a simple criteria. The vehicle must have significant modifications that are for landspeed racing,period.

and that , Gentlemen , ain't never gonna happen. :wink:
...few understand what I'm trying to do , but they vastly outnumber those who understand why..
gidge348
Posts: 129
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:50 am

Post by gidge348 »

geocacher wrote:
gidge348 wrote:330 runs divided by 130 competitors equals an average of 2.5 runs for the week or one run every 2 days

That's a little misleading. We didn't start racing until mid/late Tuesday afternoon.
That means we only raced for about 2.75 days.
Furthermore there were quite a number of people - particularly bikes and to a lesser extent cars that I registered at the start line for their 125, 150 & 175 license passes before the end of Wednesday. That suggests to me that those with vehicles that required less work between runs, (or were not still being built, completed or reworked to pass scrutineering in the pits,) got in far more runs than those that were still being worked on.


Not sure what is misleading about my previous statement when I went to school 330 divided by 130 is about 2.5 (well 2.5384615384615384615384615384615 to be precise) :)

Agree weather conditions caused the total length of race time to under 3 days but that is what we have to deal with in this sport, and we cannot guarantee that we will get any more next year.... as a matter of fact if the last 2 years are anything to go by we may get LESS race days in the week so making the situation worse.

2.5, as I said is an average so some people got 4 or 5 runs others got 1 or none...!

If those people still getting through scrutineering and fixing cars were to be in the pre-stage line as well, the situation would be worse.

Also if as expected we get more cars NEXT year people “could” miss out on runs because the lines are so long.


All I am trying to say is, yes..... the committee and volunteers did an absolutely fantastic job getting 330 runs through given the system they had to work with….

Now let’s see what we can do to improve it.

The ideal situation would be that there was little or no waiting times this is probaly not possible but it could be something to aim at.

Ian…
gidge348
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Post by gidge348 »

Dr Goggles....... I have to agree with you why run 2 meetings and double the work for everyone when some changes in procedures can easily double (or more) the number of cars/bikes though SAFELY and competitors can have as many runs as they want in a day.
hawkwind racing
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Post by hawkwind racing »

outbacktrev wrote:Hi ALL!


Here's another idea open for discussion :!: Lets break the meeting in two like they do in Boneville (as a lot of people use Boneville as a reference for ideas) Lets have a car, lakester, truck meeting only and a Motorcycle meeting only this would halve the entries and double the amount of runs people would have :wink:

Well these thoughts and comments will not doubt prompt some reaction go for it :!:

Cheers,
Trevor #298


Trevor this suggestion is put forward each year by some "Car People" :roll: The SCTA do not have seperate meetings ,both cars and bikes run together and have for a long time , the bike only event is a private meet put on by a private company (Bubs) and is professional is so far as it provides prize money .there are also private car only meets from time to time also .
your suggestion for 2 seperate meets has very little to merit it-- except for the more runs ,but I can forsee many problems in trying to do it -- :idea: some are listed below
1. most of the positions now needed to run the event would also be needed to run 2 seperate events ,we have a hard time now in providing enough volunteers ,2 meets would halve that amount , running the events back to back could help to lessen the work load but would /could cause other problems.
2.back to back meets ,who has the first week and sets up ? who has the second week and packs up ? there will be serious problems / bad blood if one of the weeks is cancelled for what ever reason .
3.will the newtons allow for 2 meets and will they cater for both?
4. Will the SA govt allow 2 meets ?
5. will the traditional owners allow 2 meets ?
6.will the emergency services be available for 2 meets?
7.will the water supply meet the needs of 2 meets ?
8. Will the roads be up to two meets ,the second meet will get all the bull dust
9. when will the AGM be held
10 lots more problems to overcome

This suggestion is a bit of a loaded question ,Ill finish with these thoughts
which vehicles take the longest time to prepair for a run ? ,which vehicles take the longest time to build up speed and therefore are on the track the longest time , which vehicles hold up proceedings by regularly spinning ? and which vehicles hold up proceedings by puking there innards onto the salt at least several times a meet :idea:

this is one of the few events where "car and Bike" people can mix and learn from each other lets keep it that way
cheers
Gary
fastest busa in Captains flat pop. 200
Dr Goggles
Posts: 1315
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:23 pm
Location: Right behind you Chief !

crikey!

Post by Dr Goggles »

Holy hell,all the big talkers came out at once!!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
...few understand what I'm trying to do , but they vastly outnumber those who understand why..
outbacktrev
Posts: 333
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 7:35 pm
Location: Whyalla not far from Lake G

Post by outbacktrev »

OK The split meeting suggestion was a bait and the expected responses were received. :P The point of the suggestion was to just raise further the point of the need for more volunteers for a harmonious smooth running meeting.
A split meeting would not be a viable thing, at this time, as is the case with some of the other suggestions that have been mooted but it did generate some constructive feed back :!:
Cheers,
Trevor #298
momec
Posts: 667
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2005 8:15 pm

Post by momec »

Personally I was not a big fan of the pre stage.

It is mearly telling all of us we can't trust each other so we must be pyhsically in line to be in Line

Why not have a single person with a laptop put down your position and interest in a next run

You can't be on there until a reasonable time after your last run so no double dipping
Sent 10 at a time from the comfort of your own pit.

You can view your progress in the que any time

NEXT

We must run 2 tracks

We have to suck up the cost and logistics and grow some volunteers
We can run two tracks its simply making the tough decision to do it and doing it.

The volunteers are there, they just need leadership and nurturing and let our sport grow without stiffling it.

Thats my twenty cents
Chris
Acme Racing #251
David Leikvold
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Location: Brisbane

Post by David Leikvold »

Chris, your comments are worth far more than 20c. It's good to hear some wisdom from a seasoned competitor.
Good, Fast, Cheap, pick any two!
nevco1112
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:58 pm

prestage

Post by nevco1112 »

i have been reading with interest what everyone is saying on the forum and can i say my 2 bobs worth.
i think we need a cut off point for entrys, say end of january (excluding overseas people perhaps who have problems getting to aus)
2 a progam printed with those entries in blocks of ten
3 have block of ten bikes and let them go
4 have block of cars next etc. until round 1 finished. i think this will organise the prestage and let peop[le know when there up next.
some one in the pit area with loud hailer organising these rounds as per the program. if need be i will stick my hand up for that . this may sounda bit complicated but i think people need to be told when there up next so they can organise them selves. if some one cant make it to the pre stage for one reason or another not to worry next block will be ready if only say 9 went up in previouse block. this may stop someone having multipul runs and some only having a couple of runs.
in my speedway days we needed to know where we were so we could carry out repairs between races. i dont know if this would work at all but i feel we need to control this area to keep everything smooth. and with a progam would this make it easier for starter and timers? nev
nev
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