Two Courses

[David Leikvold]

Apart from being a FOD issue (foreign object damage) for other competitors that lost D shackle and parachute is obviously a safety issue for the car concerned. Things like that can be easily lockwired without having to drill any new holes in anything. Make it a scrutineering fail to not have them lockwired and have someone who knows what they're doing with a pair of lockwire pliers (e.g. me) waiting at scrutineering to fix it on the spot for them. One less delay and a whole week of safe stopping.

[Greg Watters]

David both the Bubs event and USFRA event i entered last year ran parrallel tracks
Bubs had 2 (called it 3 as they ran a short and long on the same track but started the fim short at the 3mile so it could exit beyond the other short course)

USFRA had 3 tracks regular short and long running as i described and the third track was what the 130 club ran on it was a very short track ,(one mile runup and one timed) out beyond the other two that ran self contained and returned in a big arc to its own startline, topgear was filmed mostly on that track and some of the aerial shots give a good idea of its layout.

I'll be able to comment about the speedweek tracks after this August

[DON NOBLE]

Cookey ... been reading your posts about improvements you have made or are implimenting , good work . The event flowed really well when you allready had the next competitors details before the course was clear . As you know ,soon as the course was clear , the next competitor was sent on their way . Allmost seamless continuation of runs . You cant get much better than that . This was the 1st yr of running that way , and I,m sure it will get better .

[hawkwind racing]

for what its worth I asked some questions on landracing.com , firstly about running 2 courses ,they(SCTA) changed over to 2 courses in 1990 and it had some teething problems the first year , I have yet to assertain how many entries they had back in 1990 ,but expolating for the 2008 data , they put through 2488 runs on 3 courses over the week, I believe they race for 6 days sunday - friday and from sun up to sundown ( correct me if this is not factual , averaging 2488 runs = 830 runs per course per week ,further that averages 138 runs per day if over 6 days or 166 runs per day over 5 days per course , we put through 137 runs for the wednesday which would = 685 runs for a full 5 day week or 822 for a 6 day week , so from this data I believe we have not reached the point of needing 2 courses if we follow the SCTA example , another solution that has not been explored yet is further refining of proceedures using 1 course ,lets look at these ,
1. setting up earlier so that racing can start on sunday morning ,which would allow 6 full days of racing
2. Start racing at sun up and finish at sun down.
3. use the SCTA system of pre entries with a set cut off date , we then knowm exactly the maximum number of vehicles running ( as well as many other benifits )
4. having scrutineering start by say friday arvo and having a finish time no later than saturday night , scrutinering after that time would be by appoitment only
these ideas would of course need the support of members and especially the medical /rescue teams to have a chancer of working
there is always more than one way to skin a cat


(quotation from Wester on landracing.com)
The frightening part of wireless systems is the expense when a car or bike takes out a sensor. The electric eyes mounted on the top of a motorcycle battery are a fraction of the cost of everything else we have used. USFRA has tried wireless timing in redundant systems using equipment for ski race timing. We also have used wireless for transmitting timing data to the trailer where racers pick up their printed times. On the salt you are always looking at hardwired back up systems because of the salt gremlins. Gary Wilkinson has experimented with every viable system he can find and we still go back to the miles and miles of wire. Until something better, not too pricey and reliable comes along the racers are going to have to put up with a crew of workers doing the thankless job of laying down the miles of wire before the meet and picking it up after everyone else has called it a day and headed home

wireless systems are not looking to be what we were hopeing


cheers
gary

[REAL Stan]

Good research Gary.
If we had the extra help that every one wants to give after the event .
We would have been ready on sunday morning.
There was only track marking left.

[DON NOBLE]

Gary , you made some good points . I want to further add , had we not had any delays and had been able to start racing Monday morn , there would have been plenty of runs completed , and am sure enough to keep all happy . And going by past events we would have been struggling to find enough competitors to run on the Friday . Also going by past events , the fires in the belly are starting to die down a lot by Thursday .

[Greg Watters]

Gary don't forget those 137 runs were mostly 1/4 mile with some 1 mile, figures will change a lot if more 1 mile and 3 mile timed runs were included.
Same goes for the scta courses the figures are a mix of very short course,short and long, it would be very helpfull if there were a figure breakdown from each course as the very short course could be as much as 3 times quicker than the long. I'll ask on landracing.

Longer days would help, but some need to be shorter for the AGM and auction,

[David Leikvold]

Greg, if parallel tracks work then so be it, we run parallel tracks. No point re-inventing the wheel. With a quarter mile separation 3 tracks only go half a mile wide so they would easily fit in our space. I look forward to your reports from Bonneville.

Gary, I like your maths but we need at least two courses for people to get 4 runs a day, which should be our aim. 137 runs on Wednesday isn't that good when you have 130 competitors, that's still only one run a day and only 5 a week if all goes well. I love your 1,2,3,4 ideas, they would certainly help.

Wireless timing systems could be improved by having the transmitters and other expensive stuff further away from the track edges and connected by wire from the sensors to the transmitters. I had also thought about protecting the expensive gear by digging into the salt to partially bury the bits in a watertight plastic tub. Don't scream "national park!" just yet fellas. Decide what has to go in the box and find the smallest box (Bunnings has a huge range) that can do it. Put a shelf in it so the gear isn't sitting on the bottom, just in case salty water gets past the seals. Seal the gear in a taped up plastic bag for the same reason. Dig the hole carefully putting the salt crust in one plastic bag and the dirt in another. Keep the box just above flush with the surface so that it's essentially out of harm's way but doesn't gather water. At the end of Speedweek refill the hole carefully and there will be no indication we were ever there, which is all everyone asks of us.

Stan, I am confident that the conscripted volunteers program will give us enough people to do everything we need regardless of the number of tracks or toilets.

Don, you're right, a seamless continuation of runs is what we need. If we're almost there with the new processes then it's just fine tuning of the processes and then adding more tracks. I can't make it today but please accept my thanks for all your efforts and my best wishes for the future. See you next year.

[Greg Watters]

Reply from Glen at landracing
Special short course 862
Short course 718
Long course 908

Total 2488 runs

David i think we can look closely at what the SCTA,USFRA, and BUBs are doing but in the end we have to work out what suits us, it may not be parrallel,
I have a course plan from SCTA 08 speedweek and its definitely not parrallel on the plan, and thinking about it, at Bubs which was about 2 weeks after speedweek, we were crossing a chopped up section of track from the speedweek .
Another thing that changes the running slightly is they don't allow and self powered returns, every race vehicle is towed or trailered back to the pits
And those that qualify for a record return run are in impound till the next morning when returns are made, which cuts down on the number trying to get a run in a little

[David Leikvold]

Greg, that's a MIGHTY FINE set of numbers you have there. I, for probably the first time ever, have no real opinion or preference firmly formed in my mind. I apologise for the shock this will cause some of my fellow contributors!

I'm happy to support whatever multiple course layout works best. I had thought that splayed courses starting from a single start line would be less complicated for starters and timers alike but I'll let others with relevant experience sort that out.

I guess the reason for not allowing self powered return runs would be the inability to drive slow enough. This could be a real progress slower unless the track layout made it part of the run to drive to a point well clear of the racing before any car was allowed to stop. That would give us back to back runs except when there was a problem. Up here in Brisbane where the 40km/h road works never stop, there are often trailers with radars on board that tell you in giant numbers how fast you are going. We might use one of those to good effect and combined with a stop sign at the pit entry. A simpler option would be to have a couple of stop signs a fair way apart, that would slow people more effectively and save having to hire and transport a radar trailer. But now I'm thinking that we didn't have a problem with the return road anyway, everyone seemed to do the right thing. Nobody arrived hot, sliding through the pits sideways with everything locked up. Some cars might need or want to be towed or trailered back, that'd be fine just so long as outgoing vehicles kept well away from the returning cars.

Do we do the impound and return run thing, or are our records all one way?

[Dr Goggles]

Records are all one way( personally the Bonneville method is a little illogical .....being on separate days there's a chance you might have a tailwind both days in different directions)



.I know someone who came in from the return road and elected at the last minute to run wide of the pits, not that they were travelling that fast but that by that time their only good leg was a little fatigued to get much out of their feeble brakes.......can't remember the name right now

to this point there has not been a problem with people driving back and it makes for faster clearances..........

Sometime, one-day some peanut will cause a scene , fact is all areas bar the track are "public road", a "hot entry" to the pits would be a good reason to get the arse I would have thought .......too many people walking any which way thinking about something else. A sharp turn in the return road at the end of the pits would be enough but it shouldn't be necessary.

Next year our tank will have an A frame to tow it with, but I reckon we should be allowed to continue driving to the pits....towing will just save us getting the shit beaten out of us on the rougher sections of the pit road...believe me it's SEVERE

[Greg Watters]

Bubs and the FIM records are 2 way
not sure on FIM time, but AMA records are required to backup within 2 hrs from the opposite direction , you are held in impound to check the bike for legality,you can service , top fuel , oil and water etc but not make any changes that may effect legality.
then you get clearance to return to the opposite end of the track from which you qualified for a record , you are given priority on the track , not an immediate run but fitting in with other return runs and runs happening from the other end.
my first US 200mph return had me waiting on the line for a breeze that sprung up to abate, had to wait beyond the 2 hrs and the wind only got worse... back in line for another several hour wait the next day to qualify again ... that waiting is universal when your racing ...

[gidge348]

[quote="Dr Goggles"]
Sometime, one-day some peanut will cause a scene , fact is all areas bar the track are "public road", a "hot entry" to the pits would be a good reason to get the arse I would have thought .......too many people walking any which way thinking about something else. A sharp turn in the return road at the end of the pits would be enough but it shouldn't be necessary.
quote]

Maybe vehicles unable to keep to say a 30kph in the pits (because of cams, gearing, fueling etc) need to stop at the end of the return road and get pushed into the pits?

[hawkwind racing]

another reason the SCTA gets through more runs


Speedweek 2009 Inspections
Saturday, 07 February 2009
Last night the combined SCTA-BNI boards made the decision to open the salt
one day earlier than published for inpection and pit setup. The first day the
salt will be available..... Last night the combined SCTA-BNI boards made the decision to open the salt
one day earlier than published for inpection and pit setup. The first day the
salt will be available........ to entrants is Thursday August 6th. The salt will open
at 7AM for pit setup, inspections will begin at approx. 10AM. This will be a
free day for everyone, no gate charges. The schedule for Friday August 7th
will remain as published, Friday will also be a free day. At this time it has
not been confirmed if the gas truck will be open on Thursday.

It is hoped that this schedule change will help relieve the pressures and
tensions of the tech lines for our entrants and inspectors. There is no need
to change your room reservations, there is plenty of time to get all the work
done before racing begins on Saturday, August 8th.

DW