Motorcycle leaters

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internetscooter
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Re: Motorcycle leaters

Post by internetscooter »

AuotonomousRX wrote: I put forward the article about Humps because so much info that floats around is opinion based on hear say or advertising spin and not based in fact.
A simple research technique is find an author that is contributing a lot in the field through peer reviewed papers (highly cited is best) and google for there name along with what you want, either through standard google or google scholar http://scholar.google.com.au/. "de Rome" seems to publish a lot...

If you google the following you will get a lot of papers, most are freely accessible. (I couldn't see any with humps but still a lot of good info)

motorcycle protective clothing de rome

edit - here's a good example "Neither cost or brand name are reliable indicators." (of leather suit safety) -
http://www.ors.wa.gov.au/Documents/MSSA ... erome.aspx

BTW - I am picking up my new DLRA race spec leathers today :)
Paul
---
DLRA #647
89.664 mph (aiming for 100mph+)
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rgn

Re: Motorcycle leaters

Post by rgn »

AuotonomousRX wrote:Gee your a funny bloke, rgn, yep, I want to hear more about the statement you made, I simply have a problem with uninformed opinion especially when it comes to Safety, but don't confuse this with me not wanting your opinion, I do.
I just read the paper you put forward. This is not a paper saying that speed humps are dangerous, it's a paper saying that the speed hump makes the treatment and stabilisation of an injured rider more difficult. They say the same thing about full face helmets. They go as far to say in the abstract that:

"The airway and (cervical and thoracolumbar) spine cannot be managed effectively in the helmeted patient with a speed hump in place and intubation by direct laryngoscopy is almost impossible with a speed hump in place."

This means that the head cannot be bent back far enough to to insert tubes that will allow a injured motorcyclist to breath. (proof?)

The paper actually contains a lot of conjecture and opinion, that is typical of people in these professions who wish to publish and spruik. Goodness, look at the title : "Trauma and motorcyclists; born to be wild, bound to be injured?"

The paper does not in any way deal with the issue of safety of riding gear. It deals with how to manage an injured rider, and the conclusion is that proper airway management require helmet and hump or leathers removal. Leathers need to generally be removed to properly treat a patient, but we all ready know that.

While the paper was interesting, what does it have to do with safety of the current riding gear? Cheers.
nifty nev
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Re: Motorcycle leaters

Post by nifty nev »

from what i can gather the hump has no safety features at all it was designed to stop the neck from snapping back under acceleration in other words the helmet rested on it a full throttle.
have you ever felt the force on your neck under full bore . the hump holds your head steady so they can see better and clearer. i think thats what its for
nev
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Re: Motorcycle leaters

Post by Stayt`ie »

Have in frount of me the official programme from this years Malaysian Grand Prix,, as you can imagine it has a zillion photos of all the "stars" competing in their "sponsored" leathers, etc,, it seems to me that "all" the humps are of different configerations, similar, "but" different,, from my experience riding at speeds from 180 to 200+mph on the salt, and experimenting with various tuck positions, i can tell you that the angle of a gp riders back is detrimental to aero, the hump only exasapates that angle,,, now lets throw into the mix, that gp riders given twists and turns, up hill and down dale are forever changing position and speeds,,, the "hump" (in its present form) has diddley squat affect on improving aero, but serves as a gimic to sell a "name" set of leathers to the masses,, :) ,,
First Australian to ride a motorcycle over 200mph at Bonneville,,,
hawkwind
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Re: Motorcycle leaters

Post by hawkwind »

Alpine Star (motorcycle leathers maker) has a patient on the " hump" its initial purpose was to fill in the void behind the helmet and back of a rider to improve the aerodynamics when the rider was tucked ..... initially was used in the small 125 & 250 gp classes where every 1 poofteenth of a second counted ..progressed to the larger classes of racing where they tried to add water containers or data / comms gear inside said hump.. was found to be to heavy for that ....now its just a style thing its aerodynamic advantage is sweet FA

Gary
aero helmet.png
aero helmet.png (26.5 KiB) Viewed 22093 times
hump is trying to do this without placing pressure on the neck of the rider.
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Re: Motorcycle leaters

Post by internetscooter »

I had to wait till I got into work to get access to a publication...

A Preliminary Investigation into Racing Motorcycle Aerodynamics - Angelo Tempia, Riccardo Pagliarella, 2006
http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.100 ... 6051-2_25#

In there they show that the hump is an aerodynamic device to reduce the impact of the helmet using wind tunnel tests...

"It is interesting to notice that although all evaluations were completed with a test rider in place , no evidence of the rider helmet can be seen in the wake (Fig 4). This fact can be mainly ascribed to a good aerodynamic position of rider and also to the presence of the aerodynamic hump that, as it can be seen in Fig I, facilitate the reattachment of the stream line after the helmet reducing the wake."
Paul
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Stayt`ie
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Re: Motorcycle leaters

Post by Stayt`ie »

hay Paul, cant acess that article, clicked on the link, then the preview, previews there, but no figures etc,, what am i doing wrong, :?:
First Australian to ride a motorcycle over 200mph at Bonneville,,,
hawkwind
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Re: Motorcycle leaters

Post by hawkwind »

access = pay springerlink the legal tender all the good SAE papers are the same not much free anymore :(
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internetscooter
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Re: Motorcycle leaters

Post by internetscooter »

sorry you need Uni access - it has a pic of a hump and talks about how it improves aero.

I think the rule of thumb is that a teardrop shape can be 10 times the size of a circle shape and have the same drag. So a little hump would help as long as it was filling a gap and making the air stream flow more smoothly (i.e. Gary's pic of the cycle helmet). I have a print out and if I remeber I will bring it to the lake. It is not an indepth study though (but I know the authors and last I heard they are working in Forumla 1 - so they know their stuff).

edit - it is not worth buying this article as most of the info is about wind tunnel config
Paul
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Stayt`ie
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Re: Motorcycle leaters

Post by Stayt`ie »

hawkwind wrote:access = pay springerlink the legal tender all the good SAE papers are the same not much free anymore :(
thanks Gary, i thought that was the problem,, Paul, theres always plenty to talk about "at the lake", and even more over a cold drink "at the end of the day", 8) :lol: , ,,
First Australian to ride a motorcycle over 200mph at Bonneville,,,
off tap racing
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Re: Motorcycle leaters

Post by off tap racing »

Hi all, i'm completely lost with this about my leathers, one-piece small hunp on the back about 5" long an kevlar inserts on inner arms an legs, does this mean i cant use them an i have to get a new suit, i have normex suit for under leathers,
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ROSS BROWN
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Re: Motorcycle leaters

Post by ROSS BROWN »

Depending on your class with the hump.. non streamlined classes = NO
Palm sized inserts and a nomex inner suit in my book... get a pass....
What does your book say Grumm...

Ross
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Re: Motorcycle leaters

Post by internetscooter »

In this thread you can see some options: http://www.dlra.org.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1748

Summary:
- patch existing to meet requirements
- buy older style ones off ebay
- get custom made ones here ~$1000
- get custom made ones through eBay $300-$400

Hump final say is here http://www.dlra.org.au/forum/viewtopic. ... 60&#p19448 - partial streamlining only
Paul
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hawkwind
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Re: Motorcycle leaters

Post by hawkwind »

starting a new topic on motorcycle leathers in the safety section as this topic is to fragmented ... my topic will deal with the stupid all cow rule.
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Re: Motorcycle leaters

Post by Rob »

In 2010, Brett Destoop found that his hump was causing him to be sucked up off the bike. They removed the foam and race taped around his chest to minimise the hump and he said it was a vast improvement.

Scroll down for "with hump" and "with tape" shots. The tape is the silver band high on his back.

http://www.bikeexif.com/speedweek

Cheers,
Rob
I owe, I owe, so off to work I go.
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