Wheels Magazine Thrust Land Speed Article

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AuotonomousRX
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Wheels Magazine Thrust Land Speed Article

Post by AuotonomousRX » Wed May 29, 2013 5:46 pm

There is a an article in this month's Wheels Magazine about Richard Nobles Thrust 2 and SSC record holders.

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David Leikvold
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Re: Wheels Magazine Thrust Land Speed Article

Post by David Leikvold » Thu May 30, 2013 1:23 am

I'm not interested in starting a blue, but I do think that in the near future, when we've fixed everything that currently has us at less than peak efficiency, we should consider allowing some sensibly limited thrust classes. Special construction only, LSR speed rated rubber tyres only (preferably 400+mph Mickey Thompsons) full compliance with every safety rule, multiple parachutes, lots of fire bottles, etc, etc. A lot of people dismiss them as aircraft without wings and they're certainly entitled to their opinions, but I still maintain that a thrust car isn't a ride on the bus. The cars still have to be built from scratch, they have to be built well, they'll still steal every dollar you have and you still have to be able to control them at very high speed. An ex-military jet engine in very good condition is cheaper and faster than a big horsepower V8 :shock: and makes much better flames too!

Just sayin'...

Cheers
Dave :D
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GSUZ
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Re: Wheels Magazine Thrust Land Speed Article

Post by GSUZ » Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:20 pm

oh yes!!! How spectacular would that be to watch and to feel the rumble through the ground.
Our great salt lake seems huge compared to Bonneville but how far do they travel?? The longest course I have seen is 12 miles long.
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IN2VWS
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Re: Wheels Magazine Thrust Land Speed Article

Post by IN2VWS » Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:51 pm

Will the flames etc damage the salt in any way?

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Greg Watters
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Re: Wheels Magazine Thrust Land Speed Article

Post by Greg Watters » Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:33 am

Main reason i am aware of that the thrust vehicles dont run on salt is they usually have solid wheels , which work better on a softer surface like a dirt lake

i doubt the heat would worry the salt, , blast the loose salt from the race line maybe :D

one of the issues would be driver/crew personel safety , a car turns over and stops driving , a thrust vehicle if it turns over and breaks a fuel or oil line near the front will runaway like a diesel and not stop till it runs out of its combustable supply or overspeeds and self destructs

You may think its an odd series of events that can cause this but for those that know Heathcote park and the owner , he plays with some pretty nice toys , powered by Viper jets
and i have seen results of a runaway motor there, also comments made about slight changes in jet angles actually lifting the front end of the vehicle mid track or causing direction issues

as much as i would like to witness a thrust jet engined vehicle at the salt, i'm not sure if i had to vote on it i which way i would vote,

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Re: Wheels Magazine Thrust Land Speed Article

Post by David Leikvold » Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:20 am

Damage to the salt from solid wheels was the reason I suggested thrust cars had to run rubber tyres. That also limits speeds to around 450mph, which would still be amazingly fast and spectacular to watch. The other reason for solids is the speeds that Richard Noble and friends are doing are just way too fast for any tyre to survive the centrifugal force. The runaway problem could be solved by using a dead man switch like they have on trains, the driver has to press a button or a lever or something every few seconds or whatever to keep the train moving. If it doesn't get that signal it shuts down. So, for example, there could be a button for the thrust car driver's right thumb that needed to be held down all the time to keep the fuel pumps running. All other safety gear would be as per our rule book.

Another thing to consider is that jets come in lots of different sizes so not all of them would be capable of 450mph. Remember Ron Patrick's New Beetle road registered jet car? That wasn't a big engine but it sure puts on a show and would be a great starter engine size for a salt car. Here's one, the blast tickles the grass but doesn't burn it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zNdkXwFQ3c Once the car was moving the salt would barely notice the blast as it blew past.
Or go to http://www.ronpatrickstuff.com for more.

Remember that our racing is all about fun and personal bests, some guys dream of doing 100mph, other dream of 300mph. That change of angle lifting the nose was, from memory, on Thrust 11, when it went 633mph back in 1983. Craig Breedlove suggested to Richard Noble that he could eliminate a lot of drag and get past Gary Gabelich's 622mph record if he cranked up the angle a bit. He was right but it made the car a bit light in the nose. Those speeds are way out of the pneumatic tyre league so aren't an issue. The same qualifying speeds rules would apply, any driver would have to start slow and get used to what their car did at speed.

How far do they travel? Jet cars at the drags do 5 second quarters at almost 300mph, but they're backing off well before the end. On salt they could wind up a bit slower and keep on it until maybe the three mile, coast a couple of miles then turn off maybe around the five mile. Or they could keep on it throught the five and roll out to the eight. We'd soon know what works best.

One last link: http://www.everettaero.com From memory the engines were generally about five thousand pounds or so.

Cheers
Dave :D

P.S. No, I don't have a jet engine in the shed :lol: !
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Greg Watters
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Re: Wheels Magazine Thrust Land Speed Article

Post by Greg Watters » Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:50 am

Actually was not aware Thrust had the issue
the Heathcote van lifted its front at around 150mph , and i believe the Mazda took quite a while to run straight , lots of 200m bursts and coast the rest

bit different in a custom fitment like a car to running a cut down aircraft that already had most of the hard work done

Actually several yrs ago Heathcote used to have a meet that a lot of the thrust powered guys would go to , great to see the old jet dragsters ,couple of cars , Mad on his jet bike and Blitz truck , but not happening since there were a couple of crashes and one new guy in training killed

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Re: Wheels Magazine Thrust Land Speed Article

Post by David Leikvold » Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:55 am

Jet bike?? now that's a bit too keen for me! The advantage we have is there's nothing much to run into on the salt. Sensible builders would have plenty of wheelbase for stability, that's why I suggested special construction only. A jet dragster would be a good start. A jet Mazda, not so much :shock: !

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Re: Wheels Magazine Thrust Land Speed Article

Post by Lynchy » Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:18 am

Gas and I had discussed a T58 for the Jag....Ain't bench racing fun?

That's the other alternative, as per Trevor Slaughter's phased approach. Go for a helicopter turbine driving the wheels. Trevor is talking bigger than a T58 though.

Lynchy

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Re: Wheels Magazine Thrust Land Speed Article

Post by dave leaney » Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:38 pm

G'day blokes, I'd be real careful before allowing jet cars to run at Speedweek. As well as passing other safety requirements I think the owner/builder of a jet powered vehicle needs to be able to demonstrate the vehicles ballistic stability. Either with wind tunnel test results or computer simulation. The problem I see is that it's just too easy to buy a used jet engine and bolt it down on to anything with wheels. That vehicle is now capable of going REAL fast, even though it may not have the aerodynamics or vehicle dynamics to handle the speed it's capable of. Within the confines of a dragstrip and with a cautious driver it may just be safe enough, one of the reasons being that the traction of rubber tyres on asphalt masks the cars ballistic instability. Let those same cars loose on a salt lake and it's a recipe for disaster.

Ask Rosco about driving a jet dragster on salt. Back in '87 he was contracted by a European car manufacturer for a photo shoot on Lake Deborah East. During the revelry he blasted off on a high speed run only to have the front end break traction and the car yaw suddenly. The eyewitness on the start line that I spoke to reckoned it looked like a lighthouse at night as the car flat spun maybe a dozen times with the engine on full 'burner. Mercifully the car remained on it's wheels and the incident went unreported. Not so lucky was South African jet car racer Johan Jacobs. He took his jet dragster out on to Verneuk pan for some high speed runs in '06. Reports say It 'veered off the course' with fatal results.

Dave.

David Leikvold
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Re: Wheels Magazine Thrust Land Speed Article

Post by David Leikvold » Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:02 pm

G'day Dave,

You are right, my suggestion of dragster chassis was not good. Unless they were significantly strengthened they'd be no use. I was out at the Winternationals again yesterday watching the Top Fuel cars wobbling around as they finished their burnouts. They're designed for a very different purpose. The chassis flexes far too much to be any use on salt. What they do have is plenty of wheelbase to help with high speed stability, they just need to be much heavier and stronger. I think something like Trevor Slaughter's streamliner would be about right. Or a cross between that and Gary Gabelich's Blue Flame. Trev's chassis is long and heavy and also way stronger than any dragster chassis. Go to his website and trawl through the old build diary pages (I'm in there somewhere) and you'll see what I mean, that is one tough chassis! Your comment about thrust angles is spot on, they have to be right. But that boils down to how seriously people take the build, there have been plenty of cars and bikes built over the years by people who are happy to produce a very second rate effort and then whinge when the scrutineers fail the car. A properly built jet streamliner would need adjustment built into it to correct any thrust misalignment. The mounts would also have to allow for engine expansion as it warmed up without changing the thrust angle. If people can't do that they shouldn't be building a jet car, or anything else fast for that matter.

Speaking of such, I was on the Meyers Manxter website recently, one of the FAQs for potential builders was "What tools will I need to build one?" I forget the answer (it was positive and supportive) but the real answer should have been " if you have to ask that and you don't already have a toolbox you can't possibly lift then you shouldn't build one!" The same applies here, if that's the level of your experience then you shouldn't be building a salt car. A jet streamliner is a serious project, even one that might only do 200mph. My interest is in the technical challenges.

Just as an aside, my brother, who has been an engineer at QANTAS since 1974, said it would be possible to use reverse thrust to bring the car to a stop in quick time. How cool would that look and sound 8) ?!

Cheers
Dave :D
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David Leikvold
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Re: Wheels Magazine Thrust Land Speed Article

Post by David Leikvold » Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:45 pm

Here's one to get started on :D !

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Jet-Powered-Jun ... 0658648078

Or this from South Australia:

http://www.waikerieglidingclub.com.au/c ... 00534s.jpg

One more:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Monnett- ... x/2149325/

No need to jump in the deep end straight away!

Cheers
Dave :D
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Re: Wheels Magazine Thrust Land Speed Article

Post by gennyshovel » Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:32 pm

Tiny DLRA# 484
Postiebike Racing , created & funded by TwoBob Engineering

David Leikvold
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Re: Wheels Magazine Thrust Land Speed Article

Post by David Leikvold » Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:46 pm

I think these wing suit guys are even crazier.

http://www.wimp.com/extremeflying/

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David Leikvold
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Re: Wheels Magazine Thrust Land Speed Article

Post by David Leikvold » Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:31 pm

Hey Paul, is this you or Gaz?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh8FXCEowaE

D :D
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