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Re: Phase out of leaded fuel by September 2019.

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:45 pm
by mal hewett
Hey Greg
Yes I think everyone running Gas has looked at the chart many times. As you have mentioned many are not available in Australia ? a fair percentage are oxygenated unleaded ? The question really is what is Legal Yes/No .
VP seem to have 4 non oxygenated unleaded fuels that may suit. C9,C10 QM 23 and U16. I was recommended U16 by VP (13:1 , air cooled, N/A) There seems to be very little info on U16 and QM23 and there is a 5 to 6 week lead time to South Australia.
Anyone out there used any of the above or have any first hand experience with them?
Look forward to hearing any test results.
Yes Pete I have been thinking along the same lines . Running a suitable racing Gas in a fuel class .
regards Mal

Re: Phase out of leaded fuel by September 2019.

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:55 pm
by momec3
I tried to run a pickup in a sedan class and got protested. Be careful the protest nazi if you try to run gas in the fuel class.

Re: Phase out of leaded fuel by September 2019.

Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:35 pm
by Stayt`ie
I run, and have run Methanol forever,,
My thoughts are if it cant be proved legal (gray area) for gas, run it in fuel classes,,

We need a designated event only "Gasoline", this is the only way to end the confusion,, :)

Re: Phase out of leaded fuel by September 2019.

Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:02 pm
by momec3
Agreed Staytie, an event gas is the best solution. I think next year we will all be learning what works and what doesn't. After that 1 or 2 event fuels would make a lot of sense.

Re: Phase out of leaded fuel by September 2019.

Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:25 am
by mal hewett
Yep Totally agree. Event Gas is the way forward. Has worked at Bonneville for a long time. As long as the gases chosen can cover more standard low comp vehicles and the high compression/ boosted motors, it has to be a good thing.

Re: Phase out of leaded fuel by September 2019.

Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:04 pm
by DLRA
An event gas is something we have been wanting to do for some time for lots of reasons, the least being the transporting of large amounts of petrol by entrants over that road. I have approached two performance fuel suppliers but at this stage they have not responded. (Their loss)

On another front we have just recently negotiated a new supplier for the petrol and diesel that we use in the club cars and generators. The huge bonus here is that they are supplying direct to the DLRA camp saving an enormous amount of effort by club members at the working bee.
If this goes well, I will definitely be asking the question about supplying an event fuel.

Event fuel will be a bit more mucking around, we would need a re-fuelling station on the salt, entrants would initially need to present their vehicle with an empty tank and then it would have to be sealed after it was filled. But it would remove the need to conduct testing of "gas" fuel for record attempts.

Re: Phase out of leaded fuel by September 2019.

Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:47 pm
by momec3
I think we need to plan on 2 event fuels. 1 for high comp/high revving and 1 for blown/turbo/ nitrous. Even if the solution needs a little bit of oxygenation at least we are on an even playing field. Saying that we always want to compare with SCTA records so the whole unleaded BS puts us at a disadvantage. I think we should aim at 2021 and discuss it at the AGM next march. The biggest advantage to all racers is if we buy what we need at the event we don't waste much.

Re: Phase out of leaded fuel by September 2019.

Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:40 pm
by DLRA
I think it's a big mistake to deviate too far from what is basically a universal rule amongst all the LSR organisations.

Re: Phase out of leaded fuel by September 2019.

Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:10 pm
by momec3
I agree with you Greg but Unleaded is not an even playing field.

Re: Phase out of leaded fuel by September 2019.

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:06 pm
by AuotonomousRX
Hey everyone

I am still not sure if I will be able to compete next year, (I will be there with or without my Bike 8) ) but I have been following this as it has a bearing on what fuel/engine spec/tune I run as I will be entering a Modified/Gas.

I have been doing some reading and I am confused about what an "Event" gasoline means.

Everything I have read from the SCTA suggests it means an Event fuel supplier that supplies a range of Gas Class Legal fuels.

This was posted on the SCTA FB page July 3rd

"Attn: Racers

VP Racing Fuels is the Official Event Fuel for the 2019 SCTA Bonneville Sanctioned Events such as Speed Week & World Finals. The fuels below are very comparable to previous event fuels and have been tested & comply with our requirements.

C16
C14
HP100
VP110
TORQ Dx Diesel
Alcohol
Nitro

Thank you,

Bill Lattin – SCTA President
Pat McDowell – BNI Chairman"

and then in the comments

Question "So to confirm which can we use in gas classes? C16, C14, HP 100 and VP 110?"
SCTA Answer "those four you listed are for the gas classes and have been tested"

VP HP100 is an oxygenated (3.77%) Unleaded Race fuel that has apparently been tested by the SCTA and is Gas Class legal.
https://vpracingfuels.com/wp-content/up ... 00419A.pdf

However it is not listed on the VP Australia site. https://www.vpracing.com.au/products/ca ... nleaded-18

So would that 3.77% be a "spec guide" for us this year and maybe make a small clarification/addition/amendment for 2021 Gas Rules?

Pete :)

Re: Phase out of leaded fuel by September 2019.

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:43 pm
by DLRA
I'm not interested in the club becoming a supplier of all types of gasoline. (Too much like hard work)(and nobody to do it)

But I am interested in the club providing a standardised gasoline or petrol that can be used in GAS class engines.
This is what I'm talking about when I say "event gasoline "

Re: Phase out of leaded fuel by September 2019.

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:39 am
by AuotonomousRX
DLRA wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:40 pm
I think it's a big mistake to deviate too far from what is basically a universal rule amongst all the LSR organisations.
Sorry Greg, my mistake.

I was responding to this, that's why I put up the SCTA post.

I was not suggesting the DLRA be a fuel supplier.

So for 2020, I'm still not sure what Gas Legal unleaded I can use, so I will wait until I proceed with my "unleaded spec" engine build.

I'll leave it with you.

Pete :)

Re: Phase out of leaded fuel by September 2019.

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:48 pm
by DLRA
I don't know why this is all so hard, all of a sudden,
Nothing has changed about the definition of fuels in the rule book for years.
"The DLRA defines gasoline to contain no nitrogen bearing compounds, no propylene oxide, no ethylene oxide, and no more than 10% methanol."

The only thing that is new is the introduction of Vintage GAS specifically for that class.

Read the rule book - 2B page 23 https://www.dlra.org.au/rulebook.htm

GAS class petrol is;
Anything you can get from a pump at a service station.
Anything that is 100 octane or less
Anything that says GAS in the DLRA Column in this table http://www.dlra.org.au/fuel-suppliers.htm

Re: Phase out of leaded fuel by September 2019.

Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:11 pm
by AuotonomousRX
Thanks Greg

All good.

I checked the list again and based on that I'll need to run Modified Fuel.

Thanks again for the clarification, hopefully I can run the Bike next year.

Pete :)