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Sumner
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Just a question??

Post by Sumner »

Ok now don't give me too much crap for not being on here for some time and I was going to ask this question before landracing.com went down, so be polite, my skin isn't as thick as the Doc's :P .

I'm wondering since your last two events have had weather problems if there is maybe a better date for the event. August was arrived at for Speed Week over here not because that is the nicest time to be out on the salt (it is the hottest month), but the most reliable time for the salt to be usable. Earlier and it can still be under water and later the chance for rain goes up. I think the last 3 USFRA events in Sept. have had rain problems and the Oct. World Finals meet has only taken place once in the last 3 years because of weather and last year was cut short.

So I know nothing about your weather profile for Gardiner Lake, but would assume that running there in March would be kind of like us running in Sept., so what would it be like to move the meet into Feb.. Seems that the salt was good before March this year for you guys.

I was talking to Scott Guthrie today and he said "do you know how to tell the salt down under is going to be bad??" The answer is "if the Americans are going over it will jinx it :? ". Anyway I'm coming next year as a spectator, so that shouldn't hurt :roll: .

c ya,

Sum
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David Leikvold
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the $64 question

Post by David Leikvold »

Sum, you're very welcome on our forum. Good to hear from you.
Unfortunately there is no easy answer to your question. There are plenty of discussions in other threads here that will make you as up to date as the rest of us so hunt around, "Salt Question" is a good one. The quick summary is this: We don't know why the lake is doing this to us. We have members doing their own research to better understand what is happening and maybe we'll eventually build a pool of useful knowledge but for the moment it's just bad luck. March is the best time of year for us for several reasons. The rainfall is historically at its lowest, it's a quiet time for the owners of the property so they can run the canteen, the temperature is not as hot as other times of the year (but is still only slightly cooler than the surface of the sun). And some others I can't remember.

I think you might be onto something when you blame visiting Americans for the problem. It seems the more they spend to get here the more certain the cancellation becomes. Maybe we should build a car here and reserve it for the use of visiting Americans. That might fix the hoodoo!
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Sumner
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Re: the $64 question

Post by Sumner »

David Leikvold wrote:Sum, you're very welcome on our forum. Good to hear from you.
Unfortunately there is no easy answer to your question. There are plenty of discussions in other threads here that will make you as up to date as the rest of us so hunt around, "Salt Question" is a good one. The quick summary is this: We don't know why the lake is doing this to us. We have members doing their own research to better understand what is happening and maybe we'll eventually build a pool of useful knowledge but for the moment it's just bad luck. March is the best time of year for us for several reasons. The rainfall is historically at its lowest, it's a quiet time for the owners of the property so they can run the canteen, the temperature is not as hot as other times of the year (but is still only slightly cooler than the surface of the sun). And some others I can't remember.

I think you might be onto something when you blame visiting Americans for the problem. It seems the more they spend to get here the more certain the cancellation becomes. Maybe we should build a car here and reserve it for the use of visiting Americans. That might fix the hoodoo!


Thanks I found the thread "alternate solution" and read all of that. No need to post it all here again. I knew some of the guys like the Doc and Hawkwind were doing some research, but it looks like lots of other guys have been working on it too. Maybe it is just a case of bad luck the last couple years. It has happened at b'ville a couple times like that also.

It is interesting about the differences in the geology/hydrology aspects of the lake compared to b'ville, so maybe the "moon/tide" angle is something to really consider. B'ville definitely floods from the top down during runoff periods from the nearby mountains, but sometimes the water table is just under the salt and the heat in the day will bring the water to the surface. I want us to plan our attempts with Hooley's Stude now to be in the morning before 11 even if we have to let cars pass us in line the day before. It helps also with power, but more importantly in our case getting the power to the ground as the salt has a higher coefficient of traction when it is drier in the morning.

c ya,

Sum
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Greg Watters
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Post by Greg Watters »

From what i have seen of ours the salt has Dew on it in first thing in the morning but dries out well (most times :( )

Not sure i would like to be out on lake G for a week mid summer, probably melt the tires off the bike :wink:
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Sumner
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Post by Sumner »

Greg Watters wrote:From what i have seen of ours the salt has Dew on it in first thing in the morning but dries out well (most times :( )

Not sure i would like to be out on lake G for a week mid summer, probably melt the tires off the bike :wink:


How hot is it out there in the summer?? I guess we were running over 110 Fahrenheit (43 Celsius) last summer. One it gets over 95-100F I can't hardly tell the difference. Usually it is the high 90's ( 37 C).

c ya,

Sum
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Graeme H
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Post by Graeme H »

Hi Sum
I have been trying to get to the Lake for 2 years - I am sure it will happen one day. My inf says the average summer temperature near the Lake is 33c or 91.5f, but being an average the maximum Temperature must get to over 45c (113f)
On another note, I am going to run a Yamaha RZ 500 and was very excited when you mentioned Scott Guthrie. I have been trying to find some contact details for Scott for a while but with no luck. He would have forgotten more than I will ever learn about how to make an RZ 500 go fast. If you know of a web page or any other contact details for Scott, I would be greatful to recieve them - If he is still active in the racing scene.
i look forward to shouting you a beer or 2 at the Lake - if we ever get there again
Graeme H
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Post by Stayt`ie »

g`day sum, when i was at bonneville last year for bubs, i recon the temperature was very similar if not the same to gairdner, even at night, although sleeping in a airconditioned motel room was a lot more comfortable than the swag,,,, but there is something more adventureous `bout sleepin under the stars in a swag :) .
when driving from salt lake city out to wendover, me mate and i were talking about how some of the country reminded us of the terrain between broken hill and the south aussie border,, but your mountains are far`in huge :lol:
one thing that i did notice at bonneville is how thin the salt was, in some (most) areas you can actually see the gray mud beneath, also how rough the surface is (potholes on acess road),,, at gairdner it is just thick white salt, and apart from small salt waves, moon rings, (small salt build up thingos), you could almost run on gairdner without dragging it :wink:no expanshion or contraction ridges to be seen...
First Australian to ride a motorcycle over 200mph at Bonneville,,,
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Sumner
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Post by Sumner »

Graeme H wrote:Hi Sum
................ On another note, I am going to run a Yamaha RZ 500 and was very excited when you mentioned Scott Guthrie. I have been trying to find some contact details for Scott for a while but with no luck...............Graeme H


See if this link works................

http://www.ecta-lsr.com/?page_id=13

............ he called me and I don't have a phone number for him, but he is on the board of directors for ECTA (the link) and maybe you can contact him through them (Keith Turk).

Does "shouting you a beer" mean I actually get one or you will be shouting at me after you drink one :roll: :shock: .

I'd better be practicing my "english" before I come over there :wink: ,

Sum
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Sumner
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Post by Sumner »

Stayt`ie wrote:g`day sum, when i was at bonneville last year for bubs, i recon the temperature was very similar if not the same to gairdner, even at night, although sleeping in a airconditioned motel room was a lot more comfortable than the swag,,,, but there is something more adventureous `bout sleepin under the stars in a swag :) .
when driving from salt lake city out to wendover, me mate and i were talking about how some of the country reminded us of the terrain between broken hill and the south aussie border,, but your mountains are far`in huge :lol:
one thing that i did notice at bonneville is how thin the salt was, in some (most) areas you can actually see the gray mud beneath, also how rough the surface is (potholes on acess road),,, at gairdner it is just thick white salt, and apart from small salt waves, moon rings, (small salt build up thingos), you could almost run on gairdner without dragging it :wink:no expanshion or contraction ridges to be seen...


I knew I should of gone to BUB's last year, would have gotten to meet you.

Speed Week is usually about 10 deg. F hotter during the day than BUB. It is starting to cool down by then.

The salt at b'ville can really be different year to year, month to month, day to day and morning to afternoon. Last year was bad, not as bad as '05, but Speed Week hardly happened because of the water on the track and the water to get out there...............

Image

Image

................... all the water on the salt and the wet salt getting to the track part got quite pot-holed from all the traffic. The course also went away after a few days and I understand the conditions at BUB weren't much better. The year before at BUB during the shoot-out......

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner ... index.html

............. the track was as good as it gets.

Unfortunately our government does not recognize the significance of the salt flats like they do other natural resources like our national parks and they allow it to be mined for potash which is in the salt. In the 40's the salt was over 18 inches (1/2 meter thick) now at it's thickest it is about 6 inches (15 centimeters, if I got that right). There is the salt pumping program that has helped to get some of the salt from the potash plant back onto the salt after they have removed the potash, but it will never be the same in our life times.

There is suppose to be another area of good un-mined salt to the north in the same basin, but you can't get there by driving north on the salt as that turns to mud. The only access is overland and I think now that is only by jeep and you couldn't get a trailer there now. Opening a road to there has been looked into a little I believe.

Back to your comment about the salt. Some years it is very hard and flat and takes very little effort to make a track out of. Other times there are a lot of smaller pressure cracks and ridges in the salt that have to be knocked down and then like last year it might have just barely dried out before the meet. The only good thing about the government is they leave it up to us pretty much to make the decision if a race can be put on. They don't care about it getting tore up. I don't know about your flats, but b'ville naturally goes under water every winter and the surface kind of repairs itself. The problem is in how that water evaporates in the late spring and into the summer. We want it gone, but at a slow rate to get a good surface.

c ya,

Sum
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Graeme H
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Does "shouting you a beer" mean I actually get one

Post by Graeme H »

Hi Sum
The linkk works fine. I will try and contact Scott vie their email details, thanks for the help.

Had to laugh about the "beer shouting" In fact I does mean I will buy you a beer, truth be know though too many beers and it could also meen that either of us could be shouting at the other while we are having another 6 or 7!!!
The photos of the water crossing and salt on the cars are amazing. What a cleaning job.
cya
GH
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