theTRUTH

See cars and bikes being built for the salt

Moderator: DLRA

Stayt`ie
Posts: 952
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 11:47 pm
Location: Mackay

Re: theTRUTH

Post by Stayt`ie » Wed May 30, 2018 8:48 pm

Your comment "the faster it went, the straighter it went", so why change it just to make it more comfortable to ride there an back, you want to go "Fast" don't you :wink:
First Australian to ride a motorcycle over 200mph at Bonneville,,,

russelllowe
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:21 pm

Re: theTRUTH

Post by russelllowe » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:05 pm

Hi Guys,

Sorry, I missed your replies.

Stayt'ie: perfectly correct. I've since come to the conclusion that if I do any head angle adjustments I'll do it last if I have time ... but I'm already thinking about an attachment for the truck so I can tow it out to the line. Time to get serious!

Harky: yes, all of the above! Some comments below ...

out riggers --- wider the better I would have thought
I have been struggling with the concept too --- keeping me up at night
12v acutaors are one idea , air operation is painful ( air supply ) --- they look quite delicate, but can be plenty powerful enough
speed of the process is important, --- are surprisingly slow, but with a lever involved the distance the wheel moves could be a lot (at the expense of power, see above)
didn’t have a close look @ Richard A s --- neither did I, kicking myself now
and searching doesn’t help a lot --- nope, not a lot out there
wheels or skids ? --- Bub 7 uses skids, Ack Attack uses wheels, so does the Triumph streamliner (but really little ones, more like a roller tipped skid)
speed rating of the wheels ? —- some of the down hill skate board wheels look the business --- think I'll go for skids, stronger I figure
and “ rated ” 80–100 ks
lights and indicators to confirm position of both wheels --- good idea, but lights are pretty hard to see out there, mirrors?
my motec could activate up and down @ pre set wheel speeds --- that's cool.
wheels and castors , is also a thought —— means easier change of direction when slow moving ( pits —- trailer etc) --- like a NASCAR or something?
the joke you and i had about “ wheels up” we can now collaborate——— winner --- Si!

Here's an idea; a passive system that uses a spring to pull them open and wind pressure to close them (so they have panels on their front faces when deployed (always open), which blows them closed (back up against the side of the bike)). Would have to overcome drag on the wheels closing them ...

Anyway, here's an update ... LS3 in the hole!

Image

And from the rear; certainly fills the frame up a lot better than the wee 750 ...

Image

Just laser cut a motor mount for the drive end out of 6mm plywood, so will post another picture when that's stitting in place.

Cut my footpeg mounts off too, so my feet will go back about 4" ... should make it a bit more comfortable (some people are into that kind of thing ...)

Cheers!

momec3
Posts: 741
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:36 pm
Location: Cedar Grove Qld

Re: theTRUTH

Post by momec3 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:57 pm

I love it, a bike with the right number of cylinders. The best of both worlds. Towing it from pits and post run.There is pressure from some in the club (and for some good reasons) that might make this mandatory in the future so might be a good move. We go there to race, not drive to and from the pits.

I am really happy that you tested it with the toy motor. When you go back you will have some confidence.

Just make simple skids. Reality is the moment you are rolling you will find your balance, these are only to lean on when stopped. If you are riding leaning on one you are in trouble.
Chris

russelllowe
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:21 pm

Re: theTRUTH

Post by russelllowe » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:58 pm

Hi,

Well, the laser cut motor plate/mount fit spot on. But it made a few changes pretty obvious ... a circular cutout for the flex plate/ring gear will make it a bit stronger, I deleted the extra hole that the small block chev's have but the LS series doesn't and trimmed it a bit on the bottom to miss the starter while adding 40mm to the top because there is space there.

Version 01:
Image

and Version 02:
Image

I'm thinking 6mm mild steel (mainly because its easy to weld to if I need something extra later).

Cheers

russelllowe
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:21 pm

Re: theTRUTH

Post by russelllowe » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:11 pm

Hi Chris,

Thanks! Yeah, I liked it on the track ... everything's pointing to towing it for sure.

Yes, I'm glad too! I think I may have shit my pants with the big motor first up. Its still gonna be nerve wracking until I have a few runs under my belt. My plan is to develop this bike for a few years though (rather than the yearly catastrophes I've been doing to date) so getting used to it in stages was actually possible.

Yup, you can see Bub 7's skid is quite a way off the ground when she's lent over on the opposite one. No way they are for riding on!

Have you seen any designs you like?

Cheers

harky
Posts: 186
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:03 am
Location: Adelaide

Re: theTRUTH

Post by harky » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:39 pm

wow
red is always quicker
my trainer / stabiliser system
i’m leaning towards wheels , and with castors , i can go to scrutineering and steer it upright ,
mine @ about 4 metres, won’t fit in the “ deluxe “ trailer i took 12 months to make , and the retrieval trailer ( that a few years ago we were all told we had to have ) will need a rethink

now that is a serious “ bike “ power plant

ok harky joke Monday
Q. what is the definition of acceleration. ??????

A. when the back wheels meet the front wheels

that thing may prove me right

ok , back to the shed
Last edited by 1 on harky, edited 0 times in total.
harky
DLRA #643
so far 120mph for$2000---imagine how fast I can go for $20,000

momec3
Posts: 741
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:36 pm
Location: Cedar Grove Qld

Re: theTRUTH

Post by momec3 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:03 pm

Ha ha, the back wheel. Russell, yes saw Dennis Mannings the first time it was here. Brite shiny streamliner with these add on skids in bare metal hanging out the side. Obviously last minute. You need them to park.
Chris

russelllowe
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:21 pm

Re: theTRUTH

Post by russelllowe » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:13 pm

Hey Harky,

Horrible joke. That's totally dad joke Monday.

Castors make a lot of sense, but for the aggravation I recon we could go half's in a limousine and bring the scrutineers to us ... Mine is about 4.5m long with both wheels on. Bones just puts the front wheel on a clamp thing that bolts to his towbar (I think). So no need for a big trailer on the salt. Making it easy to assemble is my way of fitting it into a reasonable truck for the drive out. Your's will split naturally at the head stem wont it? I've been thinking about your outriggers ... being feet forward, they might pivot around your hips right? Easier to see.

I'm leaning towards skids.

Hey Chris, the back wheel? Oh, I get it ... you're laughing at Harky's "joke" ...

The skids on Bub 7 don't look like they've changed, they retract now though. I'm buying skids as an option. 1" tube with a 4" radius bend is what I have to hand. I'll curl them right up at the front so there is no way they can dig in.

I watched some youtube videos on linear actuators today. They seem like an ideal solution ... now I'm up to "do I use 1 or 2 actuators?" ... 1 means they can't get out of sync and they can be very powerful (enough to lift the whole bike), but then there is flex from side to side and I'm a bit concerned about deploying them down and if I'm lent hard to one side that might overpower it, or more likely jamb the mechanism. I'm probably overthinking it ... if i am lent hard to one side its likely I'm going pretty slow (or crashing, so no need for skids!). I did plop over once on my side frame rails with the 750 in it. I was going slow and it felt like nothing.

I'll make a model and show you both what I have in mind.

Cheers!

harky
Posts: 186
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:03 am
Location: Adelaide

Re: theTRUTH

Post by harky » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:12 pm

dad joke —— very cruel
i’ll get over it
i had a passing look @ the Bub out riggers
seemed like a very short legged = parallel bar system , air activated I think
i have electric linear actuators on my trailer roof , they all come with different spec speed , speed up and down is a factor for me , must be quick . and visual checkers
either lights ( on both ) for up and dowm
you said mirrors , maybe as well. ——- you might be busy on take off , too busy to look in mirrors
this is worth spending time and thinking time on , to get it simple and functional and fool proof ie it can’t fail / mal function
your turn to tell a joke
harky
harky
DLRA #643
so far 120mph for$2000---imagine how fast I can go for $20,000

russelllowe
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:21 pm

Re: theTRUTH

Post by russelllowe » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:15 pm

And here it is, one of the worlds shittiest models ...

(based on the theory "A model on the build thread is worth two in my head")

Image

It's missing a couple of brackets, and I wouldn't put the pivots right through the frame rails ... but it might show enough for the people that know to tell me what's wrong with it.

Don't be shy, there's plenty of time to make version 2.

Cheers!

russelllowe
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:21 pm

Re: theTRUTH

Post by russelllowe » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:25 pm

Hows this?

"Recently a routine police patrol was parked outside a bar in the Outback.
After last call, the officer noticed a man leaving the bar so apparently intoxicated that he could barely walk.
The man stumbled around the parking lot for a few minutes, with the officer quietly observing.
After what seemed an eternity, in which he tried his keys on five different vehicles, the man managed to find his car and fall into it.
He sat there for a few minutes as a number of other patrons left the bar and drove off.
Finally he started the car, switched the wipers on and off; it was a fine, dry summer night, flicked the blinkers on and off a couple of times, honked the horn and then switched on the lights.
He moved the vehicle forward a few inches, reversed a little, and then remained still for a few more minutes as some more of the other patrons' vehicles left.
At last, when his was the only car left in the parking lot, he pulled out and drove slowly down the road.
The police officer, having waited patiently all this time, now started up his patrol car, put on the flashing lights, and promptly pulled the man over and administered a breathalyser test.
To his amazement, the breathalyzer indicated no evidence that the man had consumed any alcohol at all!
Dumbfounded, the officer said, "I'll have to ask you to accompany me to the police station. This breathalyser equipment must be broken."
"I doubt it," said the truly proud Redneck. "Tonight I'm the designated decoy."

Cheers Harky!

harky
Posts: 186
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:03 am
Location: Adelaide

Re: theTRUTH

Post by harky » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:09 pm

ok
you win the joke of the week —— like it
mine wasn’t a book !
your skid s look simple and that’s a plus
my extended frame is 400 mm ( ish ) wide so i need to poke the trainer wheels / skids out from the frame
lots to do before i need to get real serious, but time to think about it
harky
DLRA #643
so far 120mph for$2000---imagine how fast I can go for $20,000

Stayt`ie
Posts: 952
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 11:47 pm
Location: Mackay

Re: theTRUTH

Post by Stayt`ie » Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:46 am

Quiet a few years back I had thoughts of doin a liner, but the infustructure to run one made me say "no" :wink: ,, plan was to have the skids made from flat bar (water skies), when retracted thay would conform with the body shape,, air actuated with common ram,,
In the scetch above that you have them coming straight down, this may cause a problem (pogo effect ) if you turning or in trouble, crossed up,, I would have them at an angle, also positioned so their pivot point is above the c of g,,

Russell, how did the foot pegs feel at the height thay were this year ?, would thay give a better feel to the balance of the bike if thay were lower ??
First Australian to ride a motorcycle over 200mph at Bonneville,,,

russelllowe
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:21 pm

Re: theTRUTH

Post by russelllowe » Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:11 pm

Harky, that ones straight from the internet ... so I'll have to pass on the complement to its original author. Where are you up to with yours? A build thread perhaps?

Stayt'ie, yeah a liner may as well be a car for all the infrastructure it needs. Partially Streamlined is almost a streamliner if you follow the rules to their logical conclusion. I also prefer the option of getting out if things go seriously wrong.

Pogo? Do you mean if I actuate them while turning or in trouble? My plan is to only actuate them at jogging pace or lower. All the skids I've seen are on an angle; does that combine with a high c of g to reduce the possible tip over effect?

Footpegs were fine where they were ... it felt like a long stretch back to them (which is my only reluctance in moving them back further) ... but otherwise quite comfortable with a lot of control. My feet won't have anything to do next year, no gears to change or brake on the other side, so I don't need to worry about ankle articulation on either foot. Moving the pegs further back seems to reduce the discomfort on my inner thighs. Can't really move them down far because my toe is already level with the bottom of the frame. Think I'll incorporate some shin supports though, like the sidecars have.

Here is the laser cutter at work doing its thing with v02 of the motor mounts. Apparently there is a new laser cutter that can do steel up at the mechanical engineering workshop; I might have to go up there and make some friends because this so much more relaxing than making stuff by hand.

Image

We had a bunch of Universal lasers before getting these Trotec ones ... but I prefer these; its almost done in the image above, took about 2 minutes with 6mm poplar plywood.

The main mounts will use 75x50x3mm RHS instead of plates like this mockup. But the plates that mount to the block will all be 6mm mild steel.

Good fun!

Cheers

Stayt`ie
Posts: 952
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 11:47 pm
Location: Mackay

Re: theTRUTH

Post by Stayt`ie » Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:49 pm

Yes, high pivot point will mitigate "tip over", espically if its above the c of g,,

In the perfect world you will actuate the skids at jogging pace, yes,, but you may be turning off track and inadvertinaly activate them, maybe in a little loose salt and have a scarey wobble going on where skids down may help the situation, either way thay will want to try and highside (pogo) :?

I would advise that you have plenty leverage in your legs, on a faired machine anything above 190mph Body English comes into play big time, especially in crosswinds,, In 16 my bike with full areo bodywork at 223(gps) ran into a 8mph cross wind, the thing tried to turn at right angles into it, it took all of my strength pushing and pulling on the opposite side to save it, a 200+mph broardside sure gets ones attention :twisted:
First Australian to ride a motorcycle over 200mph at Bonneville,,,

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