750 liner

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Greg Watters
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750 liner

Post by Greg Watters » Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:00 pm

Well here goes
hope i can keep it more current than my facebook

Kim and myself have brought the liner Bob Proir started and Bones added to
Its well underway and a very nice job , esp to me as the work done is in areas i could not do as nice

Probably a few things i will change for fitment of the motor , cooling system, fuel system, oil system , safety gear etc
Lots to package in a small space
As we got it from Bones
frame
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front end
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rear
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Took a leaf from Luckys book to transport it to Vic
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excuse the mess underneath , now in the shearing shed
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checking the fit of the 750 motor
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Currently the plan is
methanol blown 750cc , no intercooler but a methanol injector in the turbo exit
we were getting oil pressure drop this yr i think from a windage/volume thing so will put a dry sump in with increased capacity over the std system to hopefully have oil available to the pressure pump all the time ,
also looking at a mechanical fuel pump, figure it would take ~ 18 amps to run a fuel pump with enough capacity and pressure to see 350hp and 28-30 psi inlet pressures (around 75 psi fuel line pressure) and the bike has not got enough amps spare to do that and drive a hi power ign system and injectors water pump , and boost controller etc

the other issue i see so far is the gearing Kim ran to go 238mph on the bike is about all we can do in 1st and still get it to get to the power range
higher compression to run methanol will help, but not fix the problem, and a push vehicle will also help,but as we were geared for 260 to get 238, i think i need 320 or so gearing to get the 300 that i am sure we can get to , what we realy need is a couple more gears
so thinking about the suzuki motor and how its crank cases are in 3 parts, gearbox separate to the motor , if i run a cut down second box , gear driven from the output shaft.(sort of like what Sam Wheeler is doing but at the other end of the range)
In 4th while the first 6 are used then 5 and 6 in the secondary gearbox i can get 8 gears (sequential gearboxes are not as easy as a car type h pattern would be with a second gearset ) and use a sprocket combo to get the desired speed

basic safety stuff still needs doing like frame gussets, fire system, seatbelts, finish the steering,outriggers, parachutes, , some is time dependant so don't want to get them too early or it will eat into there life just sitting in the shed ,

So thats the intent , i may well look back at this later and wonder just what i was thinking :lol:

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ROSS BROWN
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Re: 750 liner

Post by ROSS BROWN » Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:25 pm

Greg Watters wrote:So thats the intent , i may well look back at this later and wonder just what i was thinking
I'm thinking, you should buy a broom.... :D
Am gonna sooooooooooooo love this build.. 8)
Couldn't get the "KAWASAKI " out of there fast enough.. :lol:

Ross..
IT IS ALL A RACE AGAINST TIME.
TIME WAITS FOR NO ONE.

HOW FAST CAN YOU GO ?

S/UF 925

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gennyshovel
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Re: 750 liner

Post by gennyshovel » Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:04 am

VERY interesting build Greg :wink:
It's also great to see the whole thing, Bones kept it mostly hidden from prying eyes in La La Land.
Tiny DLRA# 484
Postiebike Racing , created & funded by TwoBob Engineering

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Greg Watters
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Re: 750 liner

Post by Greg Watters » Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:19 am

:lol: a broom and a packet of garbage bags

Bones was going to include the kawasaki motor , but i have no experiance with that model, and would be starting again to build it to suit
I have a built turbo 750 motor that has been spare for the bike , and it fits better , just have to remove the 1mm cylinder spacer to get the compression ratio i want (10-11:1)
even better that the bike headers turn over and fit , keep the hot parts high and reduce the chance of a fire if i ventilate the cases

I think Bones intended to show it more when he got into the real build ,

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Dr Goggles
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Location: Right behind you Chief !

Re: 750 liner

Post by Dr Goggles » Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:23 pm

Nice one, It's on!!!!
...few understand what I'm trying to do , but they vastly outnumber those who understand why..

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AuotonomousRX
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Re: 750 liner

Post by AuotonomousRX » Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:23 pm

Hey Greg it's great to this Liner getting built. :D

Pete
#866
Metric Target 250 on a 250 on a Red Bike

Pete :shock:
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hawkwind
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Re: 750 liner

Post by hawkwind » Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:50 am

thumbs up Greg ... looking to see you and Kim move onto blue caps in the not so distant future :D ....why did Bones let it go ???
Vehicle......................A new creation.
Designed by................Troglodyte.
Engineered/ built by......Rustic.
Financed by.................Nickles & Dimes.
Rider......................... Tardus Vetus Inflatio

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Greg Watters
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Re: 750 liner

Post by Greg Watters » Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:38 pm

I think mainly as it was not progressing


spend some time looking at how i will do the dry sump,
i picked up a busa kit a while ago at the right price figuring it would be handy for something
the pump and drive look like they will adapt on pretty easy
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but they do stick out beyond the current bodywork
so i am talking to a guy in the US that does these
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real nice, i only have 50mm from the sump gasket to bottom of the bodywork if i want any hope of fitting the plenum on the throttlebodies
and i think this will fit,
anyone want to buy a kidney :shock:

Another option uses the water pump drive for a scavenge pump , but i want to keep this free for a fuel pump
specifically the 80a-0 http://www.goodvibesracing.com/Fuel_Pumps.htm

You know if i had not logged my oil pressures and seen the pressures go from over 100psi down to a spikey 30 -50 psi i could have saved myself a lot of money not knowing i needed a better oil system :roll:

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ROSS BROWN
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Re: 750 liner

Post by ROSS BROWN » Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:07 pm

Greg Watters wrote:You know if i had not logged my oil pressures and seen the pressures go from over 100psi down to a spikey 30 -50 psi i could have saved myself a lot of money not knowing i needed a better oil system

Interesting !
Could be cavitation.. pump could have been spinning to fast.. What engine rpm was this happening...?

Ross
IT IS ALL A RACE AGAINST TIME.
TIME WAITS FOR NO ONE.

HOW FAST CAN YOU GO ?

S/UF 925

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RGV
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Re: 750 liner

Post by RGV » Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:26 pm

Oil pickup ID big enough? Or drain back holes?

Ive never seen inside one of these motors so just guessing.

Dave

Last Minute Racing "its a 2-stroke ya twit - Its supposed to smoke"
DLRA #928
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2010 MPS/G 250 118 MPH:)
2011 Washed Out:(
2012 Washed Out:(
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2014 MPS/G 250 140 MPH (RECORD):)
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Greg Watters
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Re: 750 liner

Post by Greg Watters » Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:30 pm

logs show a steady decline in pressure and an increase in the spikes through the gears, some gears were to 10800 limiter , last couple were more like 95-9800 ,
i think i have too much of the oil in the gearbox and head and not enough where it should be .
don't think there is an issue with oil pickup, usually there good unless you restrict the screen with clutch material , and you know when thats happening as the oil goes black quickly and stinks

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RGV
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Re: 750 liner

Post by RGV » Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:49 pm

I think it was Ross who posted on his thread about making sure the oil was at operating temp in the Kwaka motors, might have to do it with the Suzuki's so its nice and thin to aid drain back? Thats if your not already doing that. If you are ignore what I just said.

Not sure if one of these would do any good. Might not have the capacity, but does not take any HP to run. http://www.accusump.com/

Dave

Last Minute Racing "its a 2-stroke ya twit - Its supposed to smoke"
DLRA #928
SATA #10

2010 MPS/G 250 118 MPH:)
2011 Washed Out:(
2012 Washed Out:(
2013 MPS/G 250 131 MPH (RECORD):)
2014 MPS/G 250 140 MPH (RECORD):)
2015 MPS/F 250 DNF:(

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Greg Watters
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Re: 750 liner

Post by Greg Watters » Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:34 am

I am anal about getting the oil up to temp
usually heat cycle several times leading up to the start line
Figure its just easier to put a dry sump system in with more than enough oil ,
scavenge pump will pull a slight vacuum in the cases ,
i can pull oil from wherever it may be collecting
just fixes an area that always slightly dodgy

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Greg Watters
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Re: 750 liner

Post by Greg Watters » Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:57 am

Just started calculating gearing etc if a do a second gearbox
what sort of output shaft speed do you think is safe???? current is 6355
looks like i need to go to ~7433-7450rpm
no matter how i look at it either gearing the second box for higher output or using taller sprocket ratios
like 19/24 if i keep current output shaft speed , the numbers are a bit beyond comfortable :shock:
I can see why taller tires are available

Stayt`ie
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Re: 750 liner

Post by Stayt`ie » Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:03 am

about seven minutes at idel, brings oil from stand cold to operating temp @ 160*f,, :) ,, thats in the 12, i would imagine that it would be about the same in whatever,,,
First Australian to ride a motorcycle over 200mph at Bonneville,,,

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