theTRUTH

See cars and bikes being built for the salt

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russelllowe
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Re: theTRUTH

Post by russelllowe » Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:21 pm

Clutch and Jackshaft design version1.0 ...

Things I kept in mind:
1. Lining things up is hard, so a one shaft option was preferred.
2. Making things is hard, so bolting it together and using as many off the shelf parts was preferred.
3. Specifying things is hard, so using parts that were designed to cope with the LS1 was preferred.
4. Remembering things is hard ... just realized I forgot to label the bit that carries the torque from the outer part of the LS1 clutch plate to the rear wheel sprocket carrier. The idea is that bit will spin with the main jackshaft so wont need a bearing between the two (but maybe a bronze bush).

The consequence of its sliding to the left as the clutch engages is that the rear chain will be misaligned when it is disengaged. As long as it's only a few mm out of alignment I don't think it will be a problem (of course that's what people who don't know say when they hope it won't be a problem!). I'm hoping to borrow an old clutch setup from my local mechanic to see if the measurements I'm thinking are feasible; the key one being the diameter of the diaphragm hole, so I can fit the slidy thing through it and still have a beefy shaft.

Using the larger rear sprockets (instead of the c17 tooth front splined sprockets) should give the chain an easier time as it turns through 180 degrees too.

Any comments/advice more than welcome, I'm certainly no engineer!

Image

grumm441
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Re: theTRUTH

Post by grumm441 » Sun Jun 11, 2017 2:43 pm

You could use a Turbo Hydro 425 and put a plain extension housing on it and drive off that
g
They make it
I make it work

russelllowe
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Re: theTRUTH

Post by russelllowe » Sun Jun 11, 2017 5:28 pm

Hi Grumm441,

Wow! Hadn't seen one of those before ... although I was aware of the front drive Cadillac's and Toronado's. Love the wide chain.

They mention something about it spinning in reverse compared to a regular TH400. I wonder it that means I could spin the motor through 180 degrees in the frame and it would be going the right way out the back (rather than heading to the front of the car)?

Funny coincidence was I was looking at Adventra transfer cases last night. Kind of similar.

The more I think about it though the more I want to keep it simple ... which leads me back to a modified version of the sketch above, essentially a 1 plate crowerglide: similar to this ...

Image

but with a straight through shaft; essentially one plate fixed to a sleeve that also attaches to the drive sprocket.

(another drawing will help).

Cheers

russelllowe
Posts: 167
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:21 pm

Re: theTRUTH

Post by russelllowe » Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:02 pm

Hi Guys,

Version 2 of the clutch/jackshaft ...

A few things new from version 1; welded construction, inboard bearing on the drive side (rather than outboard), Crowerglide type centrifugal lock up clutch but with a single plate (may as well be a minibike!).

Shaft diameter would be about 35mm, but could go larger without any drama.

Also, I have the gearing 25:45, then 45:45 which has the jackshaft and rear wheel spinning at 2780rpm (for 210mph). And up from that, 31:45, then 45:45 which as the jackshaft spinning at 4333 rpm (for 265mph). Both assume the motor will be going at 5000rpm and no loss of traction ... the second kind of hopeful!

Possible issues: Jackshaft is spinning too slow to fully lock up the clutch, Jackshaft is spinning to fast for normal sealed bearings, ???

Image

Better? Worse? Wrong track altogether?

Cheers!

russelllowe
Posts: 167
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:21 pm

Re: theTRUTH

Post by russelllowe » Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:23 pm

Bugger; just realized it might be a wee bit difficult to get that left hand bearing on ... I guess that's what version 3 is for aye.

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Assen
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Re: theTRUTH

Post by Assen » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:02 pm

Hi Russell,
Good concept on the build - you have a few hours ahead in the workshop. Building a bike on low budget just means it takes longer but also gives you time to rationalise and perfect your ideas. Laying down in front of the motor is the way to go - you have reduced the frontal area by 30% - 40% over a conventional bike. Do the math on what that means to drag reduction and its smiles all round.
On my bike it took years longer than planned and every part was made several times due to to refinements and strength issues. If you want to go real fast you need stability - something conventional bikes dont do well. My old bike could tank slap at 400kph and was very demanding to ride.
The V8 is a heavy motor so you will need to be conscious of the golden rule + CofG ahead of CofP. In order to achieve that on my bike I ran a longer swingarm and put water tanks, batteries etc up front. The V8 is wide at the back so that will play to your advantage there.
With your frame construction you need to take into consideration the amount of dynamic forces bikes have compared to 4 wheelers especially if you are driving your rear wheel from one side. I ended up running via jackshaft so I could have a chain both sides - worked like a dream. I did consider belt drive but to get one to handle the horsepower made it around 60mm wide - too wide for me.
Being rigid front and rear does simplify things a bit but may affect traction on the rear.
Hub centre steering worked good for me but as bones said, it did take a fair amount of machining. I have the plans for this and am happy to share if you want to have a look. Access to someone with a CNC lathe helps a lot...
I have a scale wind tunnel in my workshop and would be happy to run a 1:12 scale of your bike through if you want. You can 3D print from your CAD files (I think) - most 3D models do need finishing by hand though. I is good for comparisons but I can only measure drag.
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1st open bike in the world over 260mph - both ways
Red hats = DLRA, SCTA, BUB

russelllowe
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Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:21 pm

Re: theTRUTH

Post by russelllowe » Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:50 am

Hi Richard,

Yes, quite a few hours ahead of me on this one!

Totally agree re the smallest frontal area; hadn't heard about the CofG relative to CofP rule before ... I'll keep it in mind. Definitely want a stable bike.

Yes, would love to see your hub centered steering plans if possible. I'm a bit short on a friend with a CNC lathe, but do have a regular lathe at hand. Be great to see drawings/models of how you did the jackshaft and rear wheel double chain drive too. I took a good look at your bike on the startline this year but there was so much to take in my memory is a bit light in those areas.

Thanks, might take you up on the scale wind tunnel when I get to that. I have virtual wind tunnel software (autodesk flow designer) so it might make an interesting comparison, and validate one against the other.

Cheers

momec3
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Re: theTRUTH

Post by momec3 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:05 pm

http://www.dlra.org.au/docs/race-car-engineering.pdf
This is an excellent article on Centre of pressure/Centre of gravity equation and how to figure it out.
Chris

harky
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Location: Adelaide

Re: theTRUTH

Post by harky » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:32 pm

thanks chris
i went looking for that
interesting stuff
harky
DLRA #643
so far 120mph for$2000---imagine how fast I can go for $20,000

russelllowe
Posts: 167
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:21 pm

Re: theTRUTH

Post by russelllowe » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:01 pm

Thanks Chris, I just skimmed the article, looks great, I'll give it a go.

Cheers

momec3
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Re: theTRUTH

Post by momec3 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:15 pm

Its a bit of a catch 22 when you are building but . I would reverse engineer it. Work your shape, do your cardboard model. Play with where the weight needs to be. If you can't get the weight where your need add more body where required. (Can't do that in a production class) I have used it on the John Dent bellytank and our F100 and AU ute. All 3 have proven accurate results in real life. All begins and ends with your chosen shape.
Chris

momec3
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Re: theTRUTH

Post by momec3 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:25 pm

You can model lots of educated guesses so you have a better idea during your build plan. Saves a lot of rework. As Richard says. Never be afraid to tear up prototype. Its either right or its not. Much more so with 2 wheels.
Chris

harky
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Location: Adelaide

Re: theTRUTH

Post by harky » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:44 pm

i don't plan on hijacking your diary, this is the start of my project
i should start a built diary for what i am doing
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this is just a test " mockup "
wheel base will be 3 m may be as much as 3.2
fitting into the trailer i made for the lake is an additional consideration
sure feels a lot better than face first
and moving my torso for correction, seems more natural than when laying down
might call it the " arm chair "
it will definitely need " trainer " wheels
ok this should get a laugh --- or comment
harky
DLRA #643
so far 120mph for$2000---imagine how fast I can go for $20,000

momec3
Posts: 757
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:36 pm
Location: Cedar Grove Qld

Re: theTRUTH

Post by momec3 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:12 pm

And anti-gravity to boot. Impressive. :)
Chris

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Lynchy
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Re: theTRUTH

Post by Lynchy » Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:48 am

I've got to ask, since no-one else has. Where does the name come from - "The Truth"

Is it something to do with the movie - A few good men - "You can't handle the truth!"

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