theTRUTH

See cars and bikes being built for the salt

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russelllowe
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:21 pm

theTRUTH

Post by russelllowe » Sat Jun 03, 2017 3:10 pm

Hi All,

Just starting a build for a new bike in 2018. I'm calling it theTRUTH.

Image

Cheers

harky
Posts: 157
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:03 am
Location: Adelaide

Re: theTRUTH

Post by harky » Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:03 pm

i have a very similar lay out started
engine is busa
the yellow ( for me is the drivers torso ) ( think about it ) !
the back half is the busa frame minus the forks
i layed it up. on a bench this week
won't be 2018
be 19 - or 20
is yours to be A or APS ?
i will be A ------ unless the mood moves me
keep us informed
FF ( feet forward ) seems urgonmically the way to go , my lay forward bike at the moment is hard work , and i haven't gone very fast ----- yet !
harky :lol:
harky
DLRA #643
so far 120mph for$2000---imagine how fast I can go for $20,000

harky
Posts: 157
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:03 am
Location: Adelaide

Re: theTRUTH

Post by harky » Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:32 pm

ps
hope you are installing traction control !
harky
DLRA #643
so far 120mph for$2000---imagine how fast I can go for $20,000

harky
Posts: 157
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:03 am
Location: Adelaide

Re: theTRUTH

Post by harky » Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:37 pm

pps
draw up the " trainer wheels " ( out riggers )
my deign skills are struggling with something simple , compact , cheap and functional ---- not a lot to ask really !
harky
DLRA #643
so far 120mph for$2000---imagine how fast I can go for $20,000

russelllowe
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:21 pm

Re: theTRUTH

Post by russelllowe » Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:44 am

Hi Harky,

Would love to see some pictures, do you have a build thread?

No traction control, I'll use it's not inconsiderable weight for that, ha! Wasn't planning on having training wheels ... my legs will have clear access out the sides; might just wear rollerblades?

Yeah, all my bikes to date have been head forward and I've struggled with vision, comfort and kind of important things like changing gear ... my APS1000 used a gsxr1000 motor and front frame section with a custom built rear frame. The idea was to hide behind the motor, which was only partially successful. My feet aren't huge (size 10) but with boots on and tucked up under my ass there was too much height back there (toes too close to the ground) ... and meant my head had to be higher; I found I was always looking through my eyebrows with neck flexed as far back as I could. Went 195mph before it blew up though, so it wasn't horrible.

I think the best thing about feet forward is your head/neck position. You can easily put your chin on your chest. The limiting factor becomes looking over the top of the front wheel ... which is why I'll make a funny front end.

It'll be A in 2018 and APS in 2019. Might get blown in 2019 too.

Cheers

russelllowe
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:21 pm

Re: theTRUTH

Post by russelllowe » Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:58 pm

Version 2.0

Lifted the motor about 150mm to make the frame design much simpler ... the frame is also higher than where I first thought it would be. As it doesn't have a great effect on frontal area I figure it'll be fine. A bonus is that it gives me a bit better lean angle, just in case I get the odd gust down the course. If any of you remember my silver APSG1000 Suzuki from earlier this year you might find my interest in lean angle amusing.

Image

Cheers

harky
Posts: 157
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:03 am
Location: Adelaide

Re: theTRUTH

Post by harky » Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:26 pm

mmmmmmmmm
we are on a similar wave length
are you ridged both ends ?
steering under the knees is on my floor drawn plan . ---- that's my cad , just be careful where you walk or you change the bike
( sorry old joke from some where i worked , the serious plans were drawn on the floor with chalk , careful where you walk was a workplace joke )
thing about busa s is you can get anything , but my cyclinder head and cams probably cost more than the GM gen1 or whichever gen you intend using .
out rigger wheels are something i feel mine will need. , low speed balance and stability is not possible until 10 / 20 ks
i have recumbent push bikes ( ie feet forward ) they are good to ride but very unstable @ low speed . not quite comparable to our plans , but has some bearing on my " floor " plan
drive train after the engine will be of interest .
i have discussed and looked @ hub steering , still getting the chalk out !
don't stop
so far it's only you and me
there will be plenty watching

say something bones !

harky
harky
DLRA #643
so far 120mph for$2000---imagine how fast I can go for $20,000

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BONES
Posts: 353
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 4:28 pm
Location: Killara Sydney

Re: theTRUTH

Post by BONES » Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:55 pm

Harky

I'm watching with great interest.
For what it's worth I think you are on the money with a busa engine. As for a FFE I think Russell has it covered with
the earls fork with an imaginary lower pivot. Same as the Budfab streamliner.
Richard's hub center this year is very good and proved to be extremely stable but they are VERY time consuming to make.
The earls fork does not give away much in height.

As for Russell's V8 I think he will have to be doing his leg exercises so he can balance all that weight above his seat and bars.
A little off center and over she goes.

Russell---- use the force---- a bussa :D

cheers Bones

momec3
Posts: 717
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:36 pm
Location: Cedar Grove Qld

Re: theTRUTH

Post by momec3 » Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:37 pm

I sat in Gail Phillips streamliner when it was here. Amazing how comfortable and easy it was sitting laid back with chin on chest. I thought it would be the opposite. Steering on the bike this way, I don't know but a very interesting build. LS engine by far the best bang for your horsepower buck. Just add some lead below the COG so its not so top heavy maybe.
Chris

harky
Posts: 157
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:03 am
Location: Adelaide

Re: theTRUTH

Post by harky » Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:41 pm

A is interesting with a total of 30deg steering limits , (15deg each way ).
not sure why it is the rule , but them s the rule
really does limit the low speed abality ,
much to everyone s amusement i feel over while moving around the pit area , seems i am not the first to do it
broke the brake lever , Grant Schlein came to my rescue ., thankfully
point is with such limited steering movement , takes a lot of thinking as to how you move about , and falling over is a very real possibility , i like everyone watching me pissed myself laughing . ho hum
harky
harky
DLRA #643
so far 120mph for$2000---imagine how fast I can go for $20,000

David Leikvold
Posts: 957
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:57 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: theTRUTH

Post by David Leikvold » Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:04 pm

Here's another variation on the unusual steering plan:

https://xsgear.com/assets/images/collec ... rrat_9.jpg I have no idea how well it works, but it could easily be operated in a feet first frame.

This bike has almost done 200 mph. It would be cheaper and easier to make than a hub steer. Maybe the 15 degree problem could be solved by only using the steering stops at speed, someone could design something to do that.

Dave :mrgreen:
Good, Fast, Cheap, pick any two!

russelllowe
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:21 pm

Re: theTRUTH

Post by russelllowe » Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:26 pm

Hi Guys,

Harky, yup, rigid front and rear. Like Bones says, the front end is a simplified version of the BudFab streamliner ... kind of ironic that my bike will be at the opposite end of the displacement spectrum, but similar in a lot of ways.

Chris, yes, can't beat a LS for cheap and reliable HP. There are guys local to me running over 1000hp in street driven cars; 12lb of boost. Their motors owe them around $25k. A brand new crate motor making 330hp will set me back under $7k ... and I could probably ride it to the lake from Sydney, stopping in for the groceries on the way. 570hp is about $13k ...

Yeah, low ballast will definitely help the low speed tipsies. I've gone down the "sidewinder" route to avoid and torque problems ... which is what I suspect kept the other V8 bikes slow, and could possibly be the source of the triumph rocket 3 engined streamliners high speed instability. If it were up to me I'd run one of their two engines backwards ... Guy Martin, if you are watching ... Ha!

Bones, can't run a Hayabusa, then I'd be in your class and we couldn't be friends.

Anyone with advice on a clutch? My plan is to run one gear, with it constantly engaged. Graham Hadley suggested a lock up torque converter ... but I think they need pumps and a constant flow of oil? Mine is going to be spinning around out in the breeze. I've been looking at regular car manual clutches but I'll have to do something with a jack shaft ... maybe something one piece right through the center of the whole lot. Can't find much detail on what the sand drag bikes use; does anyone know, and have a link?

All advice and thought are much appreciated!

Cheers

russelllowe
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:21 pm

Re: theTRUTH

Post by russelllowe » Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:36 pm

Dave,

Yes, I've seen that bike go 191mph at Bonneville. The SuperRat guys are good value, really interesting designs and always with style! (His brother, also a SuperRat) is building an inline 6 bike at the moment.

After the 191mph run I asked him how it was and he said "scary" ... I asked him if it was scary in a good way, he said no.

It was really slippery that year, horrible in fact. Didnt really affect me, on a pretty gutless cb750, but all the big HP bikes were struggling.

Re the funny front end ... theirs is a shorten copy of an NSU (i think?) land speed bike from the 50's or so. There was an article about it (the NSU) on the Vintagent's blog a while ago.

Theirs and mine/BudFab's all use a virtual steering axis ... but the BudFab one is simpler.

Cheers

David Leikvold
Posts: 957
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:57 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: theTRUTH

Post by David Leikvold » Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:32 pm

How about a Top Fuel toothed belt drive off the crank back to a shaft behind the V8. Then get an SFI scatter shield for a strong clutch and then a drive back to the wheel, either chain or belt. A strong plate on the back of the block could stabilise the belt drive. Another from the front of the block could stabilise the clutch unit. You might even throw in one or two Lenco gearsets with air shift between the plates.

Dave :mrgreen:
Good, Fast, Cheap, pick any two!

russelllowe
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:21 pm

Re: theTRUTH

Post by russelllowe » Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:03 am

Hi Dave,

I really like the idea of a belt ... Sam Wheelers bike uses one for the final drive and he said it solved lots of problems.

Excuse my ignorance, but what's a SFI scattershield; are Strong and SFI brand names?

Cheers

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