theTRUTH

See cars and bikes being built for the salt

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russelllowe
Posts: 252
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Re: theTRUTH

Post by russelllowe »

Hi Lynchy,

The name has a few meanings, but it comes from a bike that was set to compete with EJ Potter's "Widdowmaker" bikes:

Image

In the case of that bike the name was much like the line from A few good men ... "You think your bike is fast, this is the truth!"

I'm aiming to be faster than the original truth, hopefully much much faster eventually; so it becomes "You think the Truth is fast, this is theTruth!"

It's also pretty tongue in cheek; believe it or not theTruth is a part of an ongoing art project investigating the Sublime and Presence ... which are two areas where the concept of truth is tortured on a regular basis.

Cheers
Last edited by russelllowe on Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
russelllowe
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Re: theTRUTH

Post by russelllowe »

Hi Harky,

No drama at all, love seeing what you are doing.

Will you connect the lower frame rails along the bottom to the rear of the Hayabusa frame (triangulating it) or is your intention to attach only around the steering head? Be keen to see/hear about your plans for the front end too. The type I'm using (inspired by the budfab streamliner) seems to be the simplest option out of all the funny front ends. It also has the advantage of being very adjustable ... good for getting the alignment right.

As soon as I have an idea regarding training wheels (or skids, see below) I'll share it with you.

Image

Cheers!
harky
Posts: 252
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:03 am
Location: Adelaide

Re: theTRUTH

Post by harky »

i have framework from the side stand mount, and rear lower engine bolt that will go around the "sump" and then rails ( same as the 65x25) that are in place of the forks , weight low and forward seems a good idea , then some more triangulation from lugs i will weld to the busa frame .
front end is -----------not clear , I like the hub steer of Richard s we saw @ the lake ., and that may mean i have a ridgid front ,
need more chalk for the floor drawings
Saw the film Mc LAREN -- last night (. about Bruce MC LAREN NZ racing car driver and manufacturer ) worth a look --- it's not showing for long
they talk about the chalk drawings on the floor
some of the film showed Bruce at. LONGFORD. in Tasmania racing in 1964 ------- i was there watching
ok back to the shed
harky
harky
DLRA #643
so far 120mph for$2000---imagine how fast I can go for $20,000
russelllowe
Posts: 252
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:21 pm
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Re: theTRUTH

Post by russelllowe »

Hi Harky,

Cool, sounds good. Richard seemed happy to share his design too ... while saying it was a lot of work to do.

I was looking at the front suspension of a Citroen 2CV yesterday which looked pretty good.

Image

Really cool article about how this happened here: http://www.mostreliablecarbrands.com/wh ... ng-sahara/

Will see if I can catch the McLaren movie, sounds good.

Cheers
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walkingpace
Posts: 88
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:19 am
Location: Central Coast NSW

Re: theTRUTH

Post by walkingpace »

Awesome project. The man who owns the original TRUTH has posted on here before under the name Vinsky. I believe it's currently in the UK somewhere. As for the clutch design, the V8 sand drag guys have built some very cool two piece jackshafts to run both ls clutches and more commonly, mini crowerglides behind the engine. One was even selling the parts off the shelf although I can't think of the name of the business and haven't been able to find it on google. Maybe still out there somewhere? I also know of an LS V8 bike using a transmission out of an EK honda civic which apparently worked a treat and wasn't overly wide.
russelllowe
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Re: theTRUTH

Post by russelllowe »

Hi Walkingpace,

Cheers! I'll take a look for Vinsky's posts.

The original TRUTH is now owned by Steve Harrison (who is Norm Harrison's son ... Norm, along with Bob Thurston, built the bike back in the early 60's).

Apparently he is restoring it and will be doing some exhibition runs soon. I've been talking to John Hanson who owned the bike back in 2012. John has raced a Vincent land speed bike called English Thunder since the 80's.

Love to see any pictures of the sand drag clutches you might have (the two piece jackshafts do sound cool). And if you do remember the name of the business making them I'd be very keen to hear too. It wasn't Hosstyle Cycles was it? This article shows him holding a crowerglide type clutch in the general vicinity of where it should end up, but no completed shots.

https://www.lawlessmagazine.com.au/sing ... yle-Dragon

I've emailed him but haven't heard back.

Is it the D-Train Cycles V8 bike you are talking about?

Image

Pretty nice setup. What year is the EK civic?

My only concern is how it might cope with the power I'm planning on putting through it. 400hp to begin with going up to 1000hp once I'm convinced the platform is stable.

My latest thinking is an in-out box from a midget car. Push start, match the rear wheel speed to idle speed and crash it into gear. Then off ... Ha! I'll probably shit my pants every time. But I guess that's what adult diapers are for aye ...

The advantage is nice and simple and strong.

Cheers!
russelllowe
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Re: theTRUTH

Post by russelllowe »

Hi Everyone,

This is the base motor I'm looking at for the build: https://www.holmart.com.au/genuine-hold ... te-en~5722

$7800. I would be surprised, but is there anywhere to get one for less than that?

Image

In addition I'm looking at either a Haltech or Holley ECU and loom to control it. Key is a system that I can tune to deal with forced induction in the future.

The Holley system is $2700 : http://www.vpw.com.au/Category/Index/94529

The Haltech seems a bit more expensive, $3600: http://store.haltech.com/default/termin ... s-kit.html

Both setups seem to need some extra wiring to the coils ...

My local mechanic rates the Haltech systems, does anyone have experience with these or others?

Cheers
harky
Posts: 252
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:03 am
Location: Adelaide

Re: theTRUTH

Post by harky »

look @ motec M84 ----$1950 ish
lots of real advice and experience available
1g of logging , only logs 16 items
i lambda channel , but can be upgraded to 2 lambda s
harky
DLRA #643
so far 120mph for$2000---imagine how fast I can go for $20,000
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walkingpace
Posts: 88
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:19 am
Location: Central Coast NSW

Re: theTRUTH

Post by walkingpace »

It may well have been Hosstyle that was making them but the website no longer exists so he may not be involved in it anymore. He was also doing the barbarian V8 bikes for a while but again, no apparent motion for quite some time.

I think the D train cycles machine is the same one. The EK civic is a late 90's model which in Australia at least ran a SOHC 1.6 engine. The transmissions are fairly robust for a small car job and apparently were able to take the power just fine in a street bike. It's important to remember too that traction for the rear wheel is likely to be the weak link in the system rather than any single component of the transmission. As long as the energy required to make the rear wheel spin is less than the energy required at any given point to break a component then it should work fine. Well that's what the physics enthusiast in me says anyway...

I don't have any good pictures of the two piece jackshafts but I'll keep looking. I am currently building one for my V8 bike which I've just started a build thread for and I will post detailed pics of that as it takes shape, as well as any problems I encounter. I'm using a quartermaster 7.25" multiplate clutch for it's high strength as well as small diameter and light weight. A lot of guys have had success using Harley Davidson primary drives and clutches as well although they add a bit of width. Again their strength is limited but on salt with rear wheel traction as the weak link it might just do the job. That then allows the option of running a direct drive or up to a 7 speed transmission which can be purchased off the shelf to suit left or right side drive, belt or chain, and with a wide range of sprocket offsets.

I am using a direct drive for mine and a much tamer engine in the form of a mildly worked over holden 253. My design is also a more traditional 'sit on' motorcycle which I intend to run partially streamlined.
russelllowe
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Re: theTRUTH

Post by russelllowe »

Thanks Harky, I'll take a look.

Hi Walkingpace, just took a look at your build thread ... great stuff! I see you are in the central coast, I might have to come for a visit ... especially when you have your clutch set up.

It's so nice to have company!

Cheers!
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BONES
Posts: 371
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 4:28 pm
Location: Killara Sydney

Re: theTRUTH

Post by BONES »

Hey Russel
You will have to rethink the starting procedure--

No tow or push starts except for motorcycle streamliners.

Bones
Stayt`ie
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Location: Mackay

Re: theTRUTH

Post by Stayt`ie »

Engine management, everyone seems to say Motec, Haltech, (Nike and McDonalds :roll: ) have a look at the "Link" system,,,
First Australian to ride a motorcycle over 200mph at Bonneville,,,
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walkingpace
Posts: 88
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Location: Central Coast NSW

Re: theTRUTH

Post by walkingpace »

Have you thought about a top fuel motorcycle clutch set up like this.

https://goo.gl/images/NFzLUJ

It seems to operate as you have suggested with a central solid shaft for alignment with the pulley, sprocket and clutch unit rotating around it. These bikes are good for up to 1500hp so it would be in the range for what you need. Even if you were to run the jackshaft at a slower rotational speed compared to your crank it should simply be a matter of adding weights to the centrifugal arms to get proper engagement. It's possible to have these clutches all in and fairly low rpm with the right set up. They aren't cheap though....

I intend to have mine split in the middle, either side of the clutch with each piece supported by two bearings to resist torsional load. The bit on the left takes the chain drive from the motor and has a flange like the one on the back of a crank on the other end. A normal flywheel with clutch attaches to this. The piece on the right is basically a long gearbox input shaft (without a gearbox) with bearings to support it, transferring the drive out of the clutch to a sprocket, driving a chain to the right side of the back wheel. In order to get them aligned in the frame I am machining up a solid bar to mount the bearings on, with their brackets bolted up. The brackets will be welded on the frame and the alignment bar removed afterwards. Ideally the two sections should then be perfectly aligned when they attached to the bearings.
russelllowe
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Re: theTRUTH

Post by russelllowe »

Hey Bones,

7.B.16 ... any idea what the logic is for that? I would have thought that the worse thing to push start was a streamliner; but maybe if things do go wrong a streamliner is probably what you want to crash in at 50kph.

Suggests I'm back on the hunt for a less brutal clutch than an in-out version.

Cheers
russelllowe
Posts: 252
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:21 pm
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Re: theTRUTH

Post by russelllowe »

Hi Stayt`ie ,

I hear you, and would like to support the Kiwi's (at Link Engine Management), but it looks like a Windows/Mac/Linux type thing ... Link = Linux. I don't want to be an ECU expert, I just want one to work.

I also feel like a cheeseburger right now.

Cheers
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