Another V8 bike

See cars and bikes being built for the salt

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russelllowe
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Re: Another V8 bike

Post by russelllowe » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:17 am

Hey Walkingpace,

Looks cool. The front plates look thicker than 6mm in the pics and plenty strong enough; I'm guessing you'll gusset the bit where they meet the backbone? Probably doesn't need that either ... cant really go backwards or forwards (and definitely not side to side!).

They look laser cut, if so, did you do that, or send them somewhere? I've had some stuff cut (from aluminium) in Newcastle ... but always keen to know of other options.

Cheers!

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walkingpace
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Re: Another V8 bike

Post by walkingpace » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:33 am

They're not laser cut but I'll take that as a compliment :D . It was all done with a 100mm cutting wheel, a holesaw and a selection of files and all welding is done with a good old fashioned 130A stick. I bent the plates with a firmly anchored vice, a BIG shifting spanner and an even bigger lever. Didn't need to go to the gym that day.

They will be gusseted where they meet the header plate to resist cracking of the welds, but at the top I will just do fillet welds front and back. The welds won't go over the top so that the gap can prevent a crack running right around the joint (although I doubt this would really be a risk). The steering head will be added right at the end so it can be checked for straightness. The last thing I want is to weld it on there only to find that adding another piece has warped it slightly and now my alignment is all over the place.

russelllowe
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Re: Another V8 bike

Post by russelllowe » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:05 pm

Holy shit! That's some great grinding and filing work right there ... I fancy myself as a bit of a wizz on the grinder, so it's a great compliment for sure!

Yup, when I was welding on the swingarm brackets on the back of my frame i had the axle in place with a small amount of clearance all around it and it was really interesting to see how the different welds tightened the clearance at certain points as I progressed through them. Controlling that distortion is an art form which I've yet to fully master. Half the time I have to heat the shit out things and bend them back to where they should be. I'd fully endorse welding the neck on last. Arc puts a shit tonne of heat into the surrounding steel, you don't have a tig welder handy do you?

Cheers

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walkingpace
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Re: Another V8 bike

Post by walkingpace » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:05 pm

No TIG sadly. My little cigweld inverter is able to be upgraded to a basic TIG with the addition of a different torch and a bottle and regulator but since discovering the new thinner rods which are available I've put it off for the moment. Welding with standard 2.5mm rods in the 80-90A bracket tends to warp the living snot out of just about anything but making the slight shift down to a 2mm rod or even a 1.6 for thin stuff allows welding in the 40-70A range with limited and very controllable distortion. Dealing with the extra slag takes some practice and you need to be mindful to feed the rod into the weld a LOT faster but the results are nice and tidy
Plus it means I don't need to learn another skill.

russelllowe
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Re: Another V8 bike

Post by russelllowe » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:46 am

Sounds like you have a plan, but I'd be happy to help with tig welding it if you wanted to go that way.

Cheers

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walkingpace
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Re: Another V8 bike

Post by walkingpace » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:06 am

The offer is very much appreciated and I may just take you up on that yet.

Also I was just reading through the rule book to clarify a few things and it occurred to me that our bikes may end up running in the same class. I'm not entirely sure as the LS motor in yours is MUCH larger but the rules seem to place all bikes over 3000cc into the same pool. If so that makes this even more fun :D :D (not that it needed it).

I'm on track to hit the salt in 2019 with a set up to run in A-G and APS-G. Are you aiming for 2019 also?

russelllowe
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Re: Another V8 bike

Post by russelllowe » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:59 pm

Yeah, no pressure ... I like to build as much as I can myself too. But totally happy to help.

There's an over 5000cc class too; page 115 of the 2018 rule book shows the records there. My LS3 is 6.2ltr's so yeah, its a monster! Your'es just scrapes in under 5ltr's doesn't it?

2019? Yeah, I was aiming for 2018 but work and some other major commitments have conspired against me. I'll finish the rolling chassis and I've banged an old GSXR750 motor in it (which is funny because it's tiny in comparison) and take it out this year to see how it handles. Then will have all year to shove the LS3 into it for 2019. I was a bit bummed out by having to take it slower, but I'm sure that'll change when I get on the salt!

You might have to change the title of your thread to "the ONLY V8 bike" ... at least for now.

I've been avoiding posting updates on my thread, but the cat is out of the bag now.

So A-G 750 and APS-G 750 for 2018 then A-G 5000+ or APS-G 5000+ in 2019.

Cheers

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walkingpace
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Re: Another V8 bike

Post by walkingpace » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:45 am

I was actually a little confused about the 3000+ vs 5000+ thing. I saw the records for 5000+ but noticed it doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere in the rules with everything over 3000+ landing in the one box. Either way it causes me no concern at all. I'll just be happy to get the thing running and see what it will do. If I can snag a record in the process then all the better for me.

My 'little' motor comes in at 261ci which is a hair under 4.3L. I've got the major components for a second motor hiding under a bench as well which would work out at 4.9L but that would be a bit of a cranky beast most likely running in the fuel class so I'm holding off building that one until I see how the Gas one handles.

The little one is a +.060 bore 253 block with around 9.0:1 comp, a cam that is only a slight tickle up on stock so as to keep a broad torque band for getting up to speed with mildly ported heads. I've done a basic rebuild on it consisting of a ball hone, new rings and bearings (there is slight scoring in the bores but nothing that causes me any real concern), new double row adjustable timing chain set, and all new gaskets and seals. I'll be running a quadrajet carby which I've had rebuilt and straight through pipes. All up I'm hoping this will push out around 220-230hp with torque around 300nm.

The relatively low comp would lend itself to a turbo if I ever feel the need to run in the blown fuel class too :twisted:

russelllowe
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Re: Another V8 bike

Post by russelllowe » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:00 pm

Yeah, it is a little confusing. But like you I'm not really fussed.

My main goal has to get over 200mph, a red hat would be a big bonus.

My LS3 is brand new and they claim 435hp. I've never rebuilt a motor (I've torn them apart and put a few parts in here and there, but never anything that required machining) so going with a new one will probably save me money in the end I recon.

My local mechanic just put one with a BIG turbo in a street driven commodore ute (which looks really ordinary, it'll be a real "sleeper") which makes just over 1000hp ... ! That'll be my 2020 plan if all goes well in 2019. Apparently my clutch is good for 1400hp so my tires will end up being the weakest link ... which is pretty common.

It's long way to get to there, but the chassis trial in 2018 should help me along my way.

Will you be out there this year?

Cheers!

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walkingpace
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Re: Another V8 bike

Post by walkingpace » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:11 pm

I'd REALLY like to get out there to watch this year but work and family commitments mean that simply won't happen. There is absolutely no way the bike will be ready and I hate rushing things and producing crappy work so it just takes as long as it takes. 2019 should be plenty of time though.

I too would love to see 200mph but for the moment I'll bring sprockets for the 150-170mph range (got to do licensing as well) then guage if it will even go any faster than that or even make it to 150! Once I've got a baseline I'll make changes from there. On paper it should do good things but everything I hear from the wise heads here is the figures on paper often don't matter a great deal on the salt. It just needs some miles under the wheels so I know where I'm at.

I really hope you can gather some good data with the bike engine in yours too. That actually sounds like a really great idea

momec3
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Re: Another V8 bike

Post by momec3 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:13 pm

You seem to have the right plan. The salt is not a place that hands out success easily and much more so demands patients. You can have all your ducks in a row only to turn up and mother nature says well come back next year. A truly testing place in many ways. Stick with the plan.
Chris

russelllowe
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Re: Another V8 bike

Post by russelllowe » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:35 am

Yeah, I feel that! Work and study have me dialing it back for 2018. But yeah, getting some sense of how it will handle will definitely be confidence inspiring. There have been a few V8 bikes, but none have gone very fast ... even though their numbers were huge. I think mounting our motors across the frame will make a hell of a difference, but it does remain to be seen.

Licensing happens pretty fast. I'll have to do a slow run (say sub 100mph) on the new bike before letting it rip; you'll be the same next year. It's good to work up into it anyway ... last years bike was fine up to about 170mph, after that the poor wheel alignment made it scary; my foot left the peg at 185mph, or so, which wasn't pleasant. After a quick adjustment it was solid to 195 (when it blew up!).

Chris is right, its a great place, and not going anywhere.

(Having said that, with Bub 7 and Target 550 coming out ... plus Rudy and whoever else gets on that ... it's going to be an epic year!)

Cheers

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walkingpace
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Re: Another V8 bike

Post by walkingpace » Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:54 pm

Blowing up an engine is the best excuse to build a new bike! My Dad raced a CB400 with the PCRA for a while. He wanted to rebuild the motor which was close to stock but knew he'd get in trouble for 'wasting' money on it. His solution was to flog it mercilessly in the hope it would let go, giving him the justification he needed. No matter what he did to that poor motor it just wouldn't give up. In the end he decided it was so good he just couldn't bring himself to break it and he spent the money to do it properly. That being said, he eventually sold it to another bloke who missed a gear on the main straight at Phillip Island and put a rod through the cases not long after buying it....

As far as the V8's mounted sideways, Lucky Keiser had some success as I understand it with a V8 in his old Merlin streamliner running single gear only. I read it was only a stock 302 but it went 200 odd mph.

The sideways V8 drag bike guys have had some interesting results too. The Terisi/Blair drag bike nicknamed the 'italiano' ran a very mild buick 215 on gas and managed 150mph in the 1/4 running top gear only (I know, drag racing isn't the same thing) and another bloke in the UK used a rover 3500 with fairly modest power and got into the 8's at 180mph. There have been a bunch of spectacular failures too, several of which involve people aiming for too much power and creating an unwieldy monster.

This research is part of the reason I'm going with the little motor first. Many of the success stories relied on using the flat torque curve of the V8 and keeping it mild, rather than going for a big peaky motor which would suit a race car. I may be completely wrong about all this of course, but a theory needs to be tested in practice...

russelllowe
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Re: Another V8 bike

Post by russelllowe » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:06 am

It sure is! But it gets a bit old when you only get 4 runs on a motor before it lets go ... which is why I've gone down the V8 route; more reliable horsepower. Maybe I should have gone with a CB400!

Yes, some good pics of the Lucky Keiser streamliner here:https://www.dlra.org.au/profiles/105.htm

For example ...

Image

The link from his profile page to his website is broken, but his page is still available here: http://home.st.net.au/~fettesi/merlin.htm

Makes interesting reading ... especially the bit about 1 gear being a limitation, with very slow acceleration. A push start would have helped them, but that is currently against the rules for anything other than a streamliner. Might have to look into that one.

You're going for one gear too aye?

Cheers

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walkingpace
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Re: Another V8 bike

Post by walkingpace » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:05 pm

I'm running a single gear for now with plans on adding a 2 speed box in the future incorporating the quartermaster clutch. I've designed some patterns for the gearbox cases but I'm still having technical issues with my furnace which makes attempts to cast anything a little hit and miss. It bleeds a little too much heat and the air inlet is a little restrictive which prevents me from getting the temperature where I need it consistently. I haven't really had the time to spend on fixing it so it just sits outside my garage looking like some sort of iron age robot awaiting a purpose (makes more sense when you see it). I will get to it soon though. I'll probably ditch the BBQ fuel and set up a waste oil burner instead

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