An interesting post taken from landracing forum

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penny
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An interesting post taken from landracing forum

Post by penny » Sun Dec 19, 2010 12:38 pm

I've been Land Speed racing for 17 years and have raced my 1963 Avanti at El Mirage, Muroc and Bonneville. I've been on the SCTA rules committee for Coupe & Sedans for 10 years. I came up with a suggestion concerning safety for race cars that have rear spoilers (ALt & CC classes) that have over the years caused crashes on cars that spin out at above 200 mph. I'm in the process of requesting a rules change for the SCTA board to look at in late 2011. I entered this suggestion this year but was 3 days late on the dead line for submitals to the rules changes for 2011. My suggestion is for non- production rear spoilers to be designed such that when the race car is going forward the spoiler provides the down force required for traction for the car, but incase of a spin and going backwards at over 200 mph, the spoiler would have a folcum that would allow it to lift up and release any lifting pressure on the car, this would stablize the car by not allowing it to be lifted up in the air and flip. Last year (2009) I was doing the timing on the Short course and Special courses for Speed Week and from a video we saw, it showed a Corvette spining and going backwards, the rear spoiler lifted the two rear tires off the salt, the front tires were still on the ground, the rear of the car was up about 2 ft when the rear spoiler came off the car, which caused the rear wheels to make contact with the salt again, thus avoiding a crash! Its a simple engineering fact that a spoiler gives you down force when going forward and lift when going backwards. So I'm requesting that when racers make their own rear spoilers they include a piviot point (folcum) to allow the air to spill out when going backwards, I hope this idea get approved for 2012. I would appreciate comments from other racers, especially those in the Altered Coupes and Competion Coupe classe to look at this concept and indicate if they think its a good idea or not. I interested in Pros & Cons on this concept so please give me your honest opinion, let me know if you have any questions on this subject.
Thanks, Dave Bloomberg (Avanti Kid Racing)
glengowrie annexe of the Institute of Backyard Studies

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ROSS BROWN
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Re: An interesting post taken from landracing forum

Post by ROSS BROWN » Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:42 pm

Do like his "thinking" Paul :
I think he means "fulcrum" not "folcum"
And aren't I just the perferct specimin to be picking on someones spellin...... :mrgreen: (catch it while ya can )

IT was once said ..... IT is a boring man that can spell a word only one way :D

A simple way to do it would be to have the front edge on a rotating shaft with plastic nutserts locating the rear
in the event of a turn around the nutserts would rip out .... then rotating the wing ...... the end plates could be built in such a way that they became stoppers for the reversed wing , thus creating downforce in reverse.
ps. picture not quite accruate :?

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Dr Goggles
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Re: An interesting post taken from landracing forum

Post by Dr Goggles » Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:28 pm

Nope.

Have the trailing edge on a pivot and the leading (lower) edge with a rubber flap over it and held down by springsor even just bungy strap, in the event of arse-first travel the air pressure at the rear would force the spoiler level, opening a gap up at the front and defeating it's lift properties. If you let the whole thing flop over it would need to have a straight line across the front of it....not many of them have that, most are on a compound curve.....

Melbourne thanks. :wink:
...few understand what I'm trying to do , but they vastly outnumber those who understand why..

gazzas landy
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Re: An interesting post taken from landracing forum

Post by gazzas landy » Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:51 pm

Another simple way ,instead of nutserts is use magnets. Cheers F.G.

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Dr Goggles
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Re: An interesting post taken from landracing forum

Post by Dr Goggles » Sun Dec 19, 2010 6:57 pm

gazzas landy wrote:Another simple way ,instead of nutserts is use magnets. Cheers F.G.
Magnets are expensive,If you want something that will let go easily I'll weld it on for you, if you want it to let go reallyeasily I'll get the Colonel to do it up with his special rocker-tightener-upperer :wink:
...few understand what I'm trying to do , but they vastly outnumber those who understand why..

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ROSS BROWN
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Re: "skinnin cats "

Post by ROSS BROWN » Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:09 pm

Yep
Like the magnets.....
The "Goggles cord wing " might also need little saftey wires to stop it from flipping completely over in normal travel
(but probably not ) 8)

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IT IS ALL A RACE AGAINST TIME.
TIME WAITS FOR NO ONE.

HOW FAST CAN YOU GO ?

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momec2
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Re: An interesting post taken from landracing forum

Post by momec2 » Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:20 am

The end result is we all agree with the proposal, the mechanics of making it work would be straight foward and there is no performance advantage but a huge safety plus.
When Haddie spun a few years ago in the Commodore the arse lifted a lot as it came around the only reason it came back down was the car continued to rotate.

My next project is to run in Comp Coupe and is does seem to be the class that has lots of this style of crash so I like this idea.

Chris

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NMBRPL8
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Re: An interesting post taken from landracing forum

Post by NMBRPL8 » Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:07 pm

Gday all, long time lurker, hope to see you on the salt in 2015. This post prompted me to pop my post cherry, so be gentle. But all this fancy pivoting magnetic rear spoiler stuff seems a tad excessive, they have it sorted out in Nascar doing similar speeds, they have strategically placed roof flaps on hinges. While pointing straight they are flush and out of the way. While spinning, sideways, backwards or what have you, the change in air pressure across the surface causes them to open and disrupts the air flow, negates the effects of lift and other sciency safety helpfull stuff that saves lives. Check it out, could this be a future rule change suggestion, adopt a similar mandatory or suggested system as the nascar fellas have had since the 90s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roof_flap

http://www.nascar.com/en_us/news-media/ ... unded.html

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-raci ... afety2.htm

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Lynchy
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Re: An interesting post taken from landracing forum

Post by Lynchy » Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:11 am

Number plate - welcome aboard!

NASCAR roof flaps need modification to work on the salt. In standard form there are 2 flaps. One on the right angled to rear and the other rear facing. As NASCAR's typically spin to the right the angled one faces that way and there is a tube connected to a side window that gets pressurised and pops the flaps up so they then get opened and disrupt the airflow over the car. Salt cars can spin in either direction so possibly need them both sides.... What we've seen is put one facing the rear and have some method of opening it up - quick! There's one on the Jag but without the air tubes to open it up. Gaz was going to set it up so he could tell if it opened if he spun out....which he did. I'll have to ask him again if it opened as I can't remember... Rob may also know.

What we modelled off was Hooley's Stude from Bonneville. He set his up with a spring loaded mechanism that popped it open if he released the chute. This could be too long in practice if the car goes around really quickly. I think a more automated approach and simple such as the tubes from the side would be better.

I also think it better with the spoiler hinged as well. Better to have too much safety than not enough!

Lynchy

momec3
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Re: An interesting post taken from landracing forum

Post by momec3 » Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:27 pm

Generally tell if it spun by the discoleration of the boxers.
There fix that spellin yokell

Chris
Chris

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NMBRPL8
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Re: An interesting post taken from landracing forum

Post by NMBRPL8 » Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:33 pm

No dramas, cheers for the explanation :) Im more of a bike guy myself, just learnt of the nascar system a while back and wondered why it wasnt widely implemented, now i know! Cheers for the welcome too :) will be there in 2015, sounds so far away, but so much to do by then!!

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