M/C Safety reqs

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Dr Goggles
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Re: M/C Safety reqs

Post by Dr Goggles » Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:45 pm

David Leikvold wrote:There's a need to be met here. Might be time for one of the LSR tyre companies to make LSR specific motorcycle tyres that were good for 300mph. It might look like a skinny deal at first, but they'd get all the over 200mph business.

Cheers :mrgreen:

Low volume hi-liability market. Interested to see what gives over the next year or so, Is carbon fibre a possibility?....light weight ,hi strength options are kind of limited...........
Greg Watters wrote:and another
Image
I did this to a tire every run and from what i can figure out its cold tearing

That's the last thing you need, extra cost and volume as well as time changing tyres.....PITA.

Car guys get it easy unless they're the 911......
...few understand what I'm trying to do , but they vastly outnumber those who understand why..

Stayt`ie
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Re: M/C Safety reqs

Post by Stayt`ie » Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:41 pm

hay Greg, just noticed that photo was taken on LSR "Holy Ground",, Impound at Bonneville, the sweetest place on earth, :D ,,
First Australian to ride a motorcycle over 200mph at Bonneville,,,

rgn

Re: M/C Safety reqs

Post by rgn » Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:00 pm

Could it be rear suspension spring or shock damping wound up too tight (hard) and the tyre wear is a result of wheel spin and the chatter frequency associated with it?

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AuotonomousRX
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Re: M/C Safety reqs

Post by AuotonomousRX » Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:06 am

Wheel spin happens on the Salt, we are running on a natural terrain surface not asphalt, it is the balancing act we all face in this sport.

I even had wheel spin on my 250.

The cold chuncking effect also happens at the Drags as well on cold nights, under heated tyre surface on a very cold track surface and the tyre surface gets ripped off in chuncks, it caused a Top Fuel accident a couple of years back in Sydney.

In 2010 at Lake G a couple of blokes were running Road Race, Superbike and SuperSport spec bikes with the same tyres that they used when road racing, can't remember their names and they used trye warmers.

I talked to them and they ran without using the warmer and then tried using it.

After the "warmer run" both said they had a marked improvement in traction and that led to higher speed.

Maybe bringing the tyre temp up to it's working range might provide some relief to the chuncking issue.

Traction, well that is what riders control :wink:

Pete
Metric Target 250 on a 250 on a Red Bike

Pete :shock:
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Greg Watters
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Re: M/C Safety reqs

Post by Greg Watters » Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:49 am

Just the wrong tires for the application
Front tire from this season at 256mph
Image
at a later meet could use tires of my own choice
multiple runs from 240+ to 258mph on a pair of shaved road tires and there in great condition

G i am still to get a rule change proposal in , i realy do not want to run on scta spec tires here

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AuotonomousRX
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Re: M/C Safety reqs

Post by AuotonomousRX » Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:01 pm

Is there something wrong with that tyre Greg, not enough Shoe Polish obviously?

I think the there will be a few things to discuss at the Meeting at the Lake next year.

Pete
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Pete :shock:
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grumm441
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Re: M/C Safety reqs

Post by grumm441 » Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:20 pm

Greg Watters wrote:
G i am still to get a rule change proposal in , i realy do not want to run on scta spec tires here
Well stop talking about it and start writing
And you send it to Gary Satara, not me

G
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I make it work

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Greg Watters
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Re: M/C Safety reqs

Post by Greg Watters » Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:30 pm

When i get 2 mins to myself i will pretty much cut and copy previous rules

Welcome any other thoughts on this, lets get it right

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RGV
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Re: M/C Safety reqs

Post by RGV » Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:33 pm

Thats just plane scary. The front tire obviously was within its speed rating so do you know what caused the tire to fly to bits?

I saw it in the video of your run Greg but didnt know it was that bad.

Dave

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Greg Watters
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Re: M/C Safety reqs

Post by Greg Watters » Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:37 pm

It was well beyond its intended capability

look at what the demands are for a race or trackday tire

run at a preheated constant temperature ~ 80c

30 psi or so

bike weighing 200-250kg soaking wet

max speed of probably 180 mph
with ~170hp give or take a little

Then we put them on the salt
even with warmers the temp will plunge on contact with the cool surface

40+ psi

bike weighing 350-380kg

speed of 250+mph
4-500hp

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AuotonomousRX
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Re: M/C Safety reqs

Post by AuotonomousRX » Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:54 am

Hey Greg

Now that's what you call putting things into perspective.

Until it's explained like that it really is stepping way above what would normally be seen.

Pete
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Pete :shock:
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hawkwind
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Re: M/C Safety reqs

Post by hawkwind » Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:04 am

As you may be aware im a harsh critic of blindly following the SCTA rules....as can be seen it ties us (DLRA) into abiding by some very poor rule decisions ..2 are outstanding in there (IMHO) stupidity.....the tyre rules are one instance ..the other being the all leather rule one comes from ignorance ( all leather) the other tyres ; as far as im concerned is nothing more than appeasing a certian Americian insurance provider .... just go back to the pre (racing) tyre rule ,it is impirical proof that the dot tyres were far more able to withstand the rigors of LSR racing by the fact of the far greater non failure rate ...when I was chief scrutineer and refused to follow the SCTA in the tyre rule I recieved many emails from our US brothers congradulating me on this decision and wishing they could go back to the earlier rule.

Sadly there is no permanent solution to the tyre dilema untill a manufacture steps up and produces a tyre designed specifically for motorcycles and land speed use....untill then we as a collective have to agree on which is the best raod to travel ..a sound and proven dot tyre history albeit not perfect ..or a bullshit brown nose insurance farce...the yanks may not have a choice BUT WE DO.

gary #282

PS why no spell check for us illerates.
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AuotonomousRX
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Re: M/C Safety reqs

Post by AuotonomousRX » Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:20 pm

These are the Rules we have for 2013.

2013 Rule Book Dry Lakes Racers Australia
Version 1.2 63 July 2012

7.B.8 Tire Requirements:

All production tires rated V, Z or ZR shall have been produced within the last ten years as of the date of the current event. Sidewall date coding will be checked.
Tubeless, bias ply type tires may be run with tubes. Tires designed for use on the drive wheel in drag racing will not be allowed. It is the responsibility of the entrant to check inflation pressures and tire and
wheel condition immediately before and after every run.
All motorcycle entries, including streamliners and sidecars, shall use tires with an appropriate speed rating. The required speed rating is governed by the record speed in the class entered.
Tires rated H CANNOT be used beyond the speed rating. Any run in excess of 195 MPH requires that the contestant return to technical inspection area where the tires shall be examined for apparent deterioration or damage before further runs are permitted.

0 to 70 MPH Any tire designed for motorcycle
use is permitted.

71 to 130 MPH Production tires with a speed
rating of H or higher.

131 to 150 MPH Production tires with a speed
rating of V or higher.

151 MPH+ Production tires with a speed rating
of ZR or special tires for racing as
designated by the manufacturer.
Production tires with a speed rating
of V, if shaved, can be used up to
200 MPH.


200 MPH + Experience has shown that using tires
with hard rubber compounds and
reducing the tread thickness by 2/3 by
carefully shaving the tread provides
the best results.

265 MPH+ Contestants shall use LSR or other
tires as approved by the motorcycle tech committee

Any tire deviation or the use of any non-pneumatic wheel/tire combination shall be submitted to the
Contest Board, with sufficient supporting data to justify a deviation, in writing 45 days prior to an event.
Any wheel/tire combination that has a square edge at the tread/sidewall is strictly forbidden.

Which section need changing?

Pete
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Pete :shock:
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Montlhery
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Re: M/C Safety reqs

Post by Montlhery » Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:45 pm

Thanks Gary , After reading the hump article on the other post I am really not sure what to think. I dont understand why Moto GP and Superbike riders would wear them if they were just a "fashion statement" and from what the article says, basically they are a "safety hazzard" .These guys are trying to get 10th of seconds faster etc . If it was streamlining why have it filled with foam ? The jury is out on this one for me . Also as a warning to other members about helmets I dont think Aust or British std will comply with the SNELL rule . We did change this rule years ago but now with the new rule book we are back were we started . I could be wrong on this one ? However Rule 7.C.1 Helmets. Luckly I have a snell helmet due to price gouging of local retails and a fellow LSR racer in Texas with a bike shop.

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Greg Watters
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Re: M/C Safety reqs

Post by Greg Watters » Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:08 pm

Thanks Pete
Obviously none, the scta rules going back a couple of yrs read quite differently .

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