why all cow is flawed

Moderator: DLRA

BIG GAZ
Posts: 354
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 2:52 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: why all cow is flawed

Post by BIG GAZ »

More of an issue with streamliners/closed cars than bikes but in 2010 when we were in Bonneville, which was the first year of mandatory HANS restraints, one of the issues that came about in formulating the rule was the gap between helmet and suit. Previously the area was covered by a head sock and a foam neck collar which offered much more fire protection than just a head sock and HANS. They still decided on the HANS though. It goes to show that everyone's input is critical when implementing a new rule or changing an old one and no amount of research is too much. No-ones opinion should be disregarded.
GAZ
User avatar
JonB
Posts: 268
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:35 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: why all cow is flawed

Post by JonB »

I don't have a sit on LSR bike so no didect effect to me, I do ride though.

A few points.
You want a decent flame barrier between you and any fire and you and the salt in case of a get off.
(don't think anyone is arguing about that)
Anything that is going to achieve that is going to stop airflow.
No airflow is going to keep the sweat next to your body.
The small amount of airflow through small stretch panels is not going to magically make you dry.


Most people's gripe with the all leather rule seems to be $ related, sorry guys but if that is your gripe you need to harden up some.
Don't see the car guys moaning about how much as SFI suit costs and wanting to wear something lesser.
Anything that achieves a comparable flame barrier and wear resistance to all cow is not going to be cheap.

My 1.5cents worth
jon

P.S. there is a decent amount of people that travel back and forth between here and the U.S. having an aligned rule book is a good thing IMHO.
DLRA#1115
Underhouse Engineering
User avatar
AuotonomousRX
Posts: 729
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:05 pm
Location: Eyre Peninsula SA

Re: why all cow is flawed

Post by AuotonomousRX »

I put those points forward because I think that there's many many possible things that could happen, yep it could happen

But I think a Fire on a Sit On Bike that has passed Tech is highly unlikely.

My primary concern is having some protection if I come off.

I had Perforated Leathers in 2010 and I was still sweating.

What do other types of Bike Racing require as far as Fire Protection?

The only other Motorcycle Racing that is similar to some of our highly modified Land Speed Bikes/Classes and actually have fire/engine explosions is Drag Racing, especially the Nitro Fuelled Top Bike category.

The rules there require an unspecified one or two piece Full Leathers as a minimum. I'm not saying this is right, I just wonder why that is the case.

I'd wear Fire Protection if required but I want to make sure Abrasion Protection is the Priority and is not compromised in the end.

Pete
Still trying to decide if I am a procrastinator

Pete :?
DLRA #866
Stayt`ie
Posts: 1041
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 11:47 pm
Location: Mackay

Re: why all cow is flawed

Post by Stayt`ie »

i have and have always worn two piece, i didnt realize how much cooler thay are until i ran FIM where thay require one piece,, ok, standing around waiting to run, with two piece you remove the jacket which allows heat from body warmth to escape out the top (hot air rises),, the common pratice with one piece is to slip out of the jacket section and tye them around your midriff, this traps the hot air in there,, when i ran FIM i had the two sections securily sewn together, same set of leathers, one piece noticably hotter, so much so that when thay got back to Australia i immediatly had them converted back to two piece, :D ,,
First Australian to ride a motorcycle over 200mph at Bonneville,,,
User avatar
Greg Watters
Posts: 760
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:57 pm

Re: why all cow is flawed

Post by Greg Watters »

Fire is a distinct possibility anytime
throw a rod and ventilate the cases, you get oil on a real hot exhaust and you have a good fire
esp if your riding a fairinged bike the air is drawing up from the engine area to the low pressure area behind the screen
expect your face , chest forarms and also back of the legs to bear the brunt of the heat
how long for will depend on the speed, took me 40 secs to slow asap from 256mph after chunking the tire
club animal
Posts: 93
Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 12:28 am
Location: Faradayis vic
Contact:

Re: why all cow is flawed

Post by club animal »

AuotonomousRX wrote:I asked a couple of questions earlier but I have not got any response to them.

Could a suit that has perforations across the front allow a flash/explosive type fire to have direct contact with the wearers skin and have a greater chance of burning the wearer than with Non perforated Leathers?

If a Fire was intense enough and long enough to create steam, and I do not know what that would be, could the exposed neck area between the top of the Leathers and the Helmet be at a greater risk of more severe burns from direct contact with such an intense fire than the steam regardless of the type of Leathers worn?

Any ideas, answers, or feedback?

Pete

Oh Yeah HISide Leather Repairs in Brisbane are a specialist Motorcyle Leathers repair shop can replace any panels in an existing suit.

http://www.hisideleathers.com/
Hi Pete i think any holes in a suit would let oil/ fuel inside add the right oxegen mix and up you go iff the fire was intence enough to create steam then i think you would be cooked and as for the neck area the padding on most Australian design helmets melt real good and my last comment is a oil fire at 200 mph is like sticking a cutting torch in your face Regards fom Animal
Regards ANIMAL
Member 151
NAC 200+mph club
DLRA 200 mph club
going fast is my blast
grumm441
Posts: 523
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 5:43 pm
Location: Buggery, a tidy town
Contact:

Re: why all cow is flawed

Post by grumm441 »

club animal wrote: Hi Pete i think any holes in a suit would let oil/ fuel inside add the right oxegen mix and up you go iff the fire was intence enough to create steam then i think you would be cooked and as for the neck area the padding on most Australian design helmets melt real good and my last comment is a oil fire at 200 mph is like sticking a cutting torch in your face Regards fom Animal
That's right , no motorcycle helmets are designed to deal with a fire
Not just the AS1698, but the Snell, ECE 22-05 P, Auto union gold standard, or JIS
Only car helmets are built with fire resistant linings
However car helmets are not designed for the types of impacts that bike helmets are.
G
They make it
I make it work
Stayt`ie
Posts: 1041
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 11:47 pm
Location: Mackay

Re: why all cow is flawed

Post by Stayt`ie »

i recon if you were unfortunate enough to have a fire your first instink would be to try and save the machine, :? , but, if some section or all of your body was engulfed, like it or not, there would be a point where ya gunna bail, :twisted: , this is one huge advantage we bikers have over our four wheel cousins, :)
First Australian to ride a motorcycle over 200mph at Bonneville,,,
User avatar
AuotonomousRX
Posts: 729
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:05 pm
Location: Eyre Peninsula SA

Re: why all cow is flawed

Post by AuotonomousRX »

I agree Greg, a fire is a real possibility. It could happen. There is a whole lot of things that could happen. Could those things I put forward happen and cause an injury? Yes again it could happen.

The Question I asked myself was; How likely is the chance of a Fire happening on my Sit On Bike? I know it could happen but, How likely is it.

The information put forward here that the all Leather Rule came in because of one incident that involved a Fire.

I don't know what caused the Fire. I know very little about this one incident.

Has there been more? If so what were the actual incident investigation findings?

The other thing that I looked at was, Fire as a Hazard is manged through our Tech Rules and Inspections. That is consistent with all the forms of Motorcycle Racing I know of.

I am not aware of the requirement for Fire Specific Protective Equipment in Motorcycle Racing at present.

However, we the DLRA, did have a Fire Protection Requirement before we adopted the current SCTA rules. There was obviously a reason for that, so what has changed ?

If the same Hazards exist now, then maybe we will need to wear Fire Protection?

What sort of Protection is required, I have no idea, we would be exploring new territory.

Pete
Still trying to decide if I am a procrastinator

Pete :?
DLRA #866
Stayt`ie
Posts: 1041
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 11:47 pm
Location: Mackay

Re: why all cow is flawed

Post by Stayt`ie »

was giving this fire scenario some thought today (quiet day at work :) ),, the lenyard "teather" line,, most are constructed of cord/string/nylon, some are encased or coated in plastic, imho it wouldnt take much heat to melt it rendering the thing useless,,
First Australian to ride a motorcycle over 200mph at Bonneville,,,
User avatar
Greg Watters
Posts: 760
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:57 pm

Re: why all cow is flawed

Post by Greg Watters »

mine is wire core , but i clip it onto a plastic piece on my gloves
Montlhery
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 5:54 pm

Re: why all cow is flawed

Post by Montlhery »

[Most people's gripe with the all leather rule seems to be $ related, sorry guys but if that is your gripe you need to harden up some.
Don't see the car guys moaning about how much as SFI suit costs and wanting to wear something lesser.
Anything that achieves a comparable flame barrier and wear resistance to all cow is not going to be cheap.]

Thanks for your imput Jon but I think this is completely incorrect . The lasts time we ran at the salt I wore Moto GP style leathers with a hump ,stretch panels and limited perforation and an AUS standard helmet .The leathers cost somewhwere around $1850 and helmet $950 . In 2013 with the rule book changes ,I can use none of these to run the same as I did ! To comply with the rules as they stand now I can buy a set of leathers off ebay for $200 and a helmet for $150 with Snell sticker. So please it is NOT about money . Hell with with the new rules I can sell my back protector (not that I would) and make $200 ! This is about safety number one and Gary has some excellent points . The truth is if you have a fire on board, you are going to want to get off as soon as possible and I would rather have abrasion and impact resistance leathers. There are are lot of things that can go wrong out there. Now Greg is getting up around 260+ maybe front brakes should be compulsary so he can slow down faster (would brakes burn up at this speed and cause a another fire ? ) We could go on and on !
User avatar
JonB
Posts: 268
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:35 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: why all cow is flawed

Post by JonB »

Hi Montlhery
For $1850 you should be able to get a nice set of leathers made that comply with the rules and offer good fire and abrasion protection.
Your helmet should be fine still.

jon
DLRA#1115
Underhouse Engineering
User avatar
zork
Posts: 124
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:29 am
Location: St Marys 5042

Re: why all cow is flawed

Post by zork »

I think that is Montlherys point, he already has a set of $1850 leathers that now under the new rules are illegal but can buy a set for a few hundred on ebay which are legal.
Montlhery
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 5:54 pm

Re: why all cow is flawed

Post by Montlhery »

Thanks Zork ,this was my point and Jon unfortunately no my Aus Standard helmet does not comply with the rules and you will not be allowed to run . I really hope some of the newer members are aware of this and dont get to the Salt with a non SNELL helmet !
Post Reply