Crosswinds

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momec3
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Re: Crosswinds

Post by momec3 » Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:53 am

Yes.
Chris

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Lynchy
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Re: Crosswinds

Post by Lynchy » Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:32 am

Chris

Nah.......... I want more than that! It took me a half hour or so to punch that out - Feedback!!!!!!

Give me a call when you're free, you can give me more ideas and I can bounce mine off someone else.

Regards
Lynchy

David Leikvold
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Re: Crosswinds

Post by David Leikvold » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:29 am

Paul,

That sounds like a wonderful improvement. Let's make it happen. I am also concerned about the wasted time when Southern Rescue gives you the all clear and I don't get the all clear I need until after lots of speeds have been read out to Greg Wapling. Forgive me for stating the bleedin' obvious but that radio chatter would cease to exist with a linked computer system. Bring it on!

Cheers
Dave
Good, Fast, Cheap, pick any two!

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Lynchy
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Re: Crosswinds

Post by Lynchy » Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:25 pm

Dave

Read the post... speeds to be read out over UHF Ch10 not the Track 1 radio channel. Any other queries to the timers over ch 10 - that way we can ignore them till we are ready. ;-)

Networking the lake and linking computers is a secondary project to all those that are there to speed things up. Nice to have but not must have. The primary objective as well is to keep it simple and to minimise the systems that we rely on for running the event.

Regards
Lynchy

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BONES
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Re: Crosswinds

Post by BONES » Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:42 pm

Lynchy

I think the timing van should be kept where it is-- they are also needed as spotters.
I got into trouble twice this year for pulling off the track TOO soon. Both times the bike had a problem around the 1 mile I was able to get off the track well clear of the tender vehicle road. One time I was able to ride back to the pits.
No one was watching.

The first time I heard on the radio that I couldn't be found--- I called back to notify that I was ok and off the track.
The second time I rode back to the pits-- again NOBODY saw me leave the track and again the rescue crew were looking for me. I again heard on the radio that I was missing and notified Animal.

Maybe the starter and or his assistant should watch the competitor for a bit after leaving.

With the timing system do we really need to give the list of the next 10 vehicles to run?
All the entries should be in the computer (pre entries)
It should only be necessary for the starter call a number--444--the starter enters 444 in the computer and it comes up as rider 444 class xxx Ready to go
Different rider same bike. Enter the new number 123 it comes up as rider 123 class xxx
Same rider different bike. Enter the new number 9123 it comes up as rider 123 class zzz. I used this this year.
The starter and timing confirm the number and class on the vehicle and away we go.
If the system will not cope with letters, all classes and capacities have a numerical code -- on the entry form.

We need to get all competitors to keep the line moving to the start line. Vehicles need to be at the line ready to go.
The starters have enough to do without chasing people to come forward to the line

edit should have read your whole post oops

cheers Bones

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Cookey
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Re: Crosswinds

Post by Cookey » Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:06 pm

Guys,
Not sure if this discussion belongs in this particular topic of Crosswinds, but as the wind monitoring function is generally carried out at the Start Line and the Timing Van, I guess it is!!
Having previously been the Timer and knowing what the demands are, I, whilst in the past have been against the relocating of the timing van to the start line area, can now see merit in this proposal!
In the early days of wired timing equipment this would not be practical due to the extra amount of wire to be rolled out etc., but consider the scenario whereby the "Race Control Center" (incorporating the timing function) is situated say at around a hundred or so meters down the course from the start line.
A visual system of lights on the "Control Center" van will indicate to all concerned at the start line whether the course is closed or clear.
Red = Closed, Green = Clear & Flashing Red = Emergency.
This will save the starter some time and eliminate missed radio calls from the various on course officials and rescue etc etc.
The starter still has communication directly with "Race Control" regarding the relevant vehicle to run but does not have the added burden of looking to hear from the rescue teams that the course is clear, this is the job of the Race Controller.
Course Marshals as are used at various points along the track as they are at Bonneville & El. Mirage etc. relay the down course information such as wind speed and of incidents/accidents to the Control Center.
An electronic display board clearly visible in the area will show the vehicle and speed attained.

Sounds Good?? It does because It Is!!

Pros We have the technology to implement this.
Cons WE DO NOT HAVE THE PEOPLE!!!

This most vital function of our running Speed-Week relies on skilled and experienced people who are prepared to do this job year in and out and also have to the back up to ensure that they are happy to continue to carry out this duty.

Volunteering is not working and the DLRA should seriously consider the viable alternative of a User Pays option of being able to compensate the officials who are most vital for the running on the event.
Cheers,
Tony Cooke
DLRA # 363

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Lynchy
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Re: Crosswinds

Post by Lynchy » Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:23 pm

Cookey

You raise some good points and have some good ideas which I will include into my list. This discussion ended up here in response to talk about getting a weather station - If we do get one it needs to work in with the timing system so that weather data is saved with the run info.

We had discussed the idea of having traffic lights on the van to indicate track ready / track closed, we should put this back on the table. It is easy to do and control from the timing van. The starter still needs to announce the next vehicle though but a visual indicator that the track is open would be useful to him when there are noisy vehicles about. Id suggest that the lights default to red = track closed and when Southern Rescue and the Track Controller indicate track open then a momentary contact switch is pressed and held until the next vehicle is sent down the course.

I agree with the van being away from the start but only 50m or so. That way the list of next vehicles/drivers can be trotted out by a starters assistant. This is crucial to reducing radio chatter and delays.

Bones - you raise some good points that you've since discovered that we've covered. Funnily enough, and I didn't know it was you, I was told bike 444 was the one that kept disappearing off the course so it did come to mind that the timers would observe the first few miles of the course to provide advice to SR and TC if this happened. So we'll have your back in future.

Cookey raises another good point - volunteers. A big thanks to the people who do volunteer!!! They are too numerous to mention and yet we need more help. The Timers work around 15-16 hours every day, the starters are similar as are the rest of the jobs. If more people help then we can reduce our hours. I'm for conscription - if people don't volunteer then they get press ganged into action - or they don't run. An hour or two would be enough. I'm going to draw up a roster for the setup, running and tear down of the timing gear and populate it with the current volunteers that we have and then work out what we need.

Regards
Lynchy

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Re: Crosswinds

Post by club animal » Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:04 pm

Regarding radio chatter the race director needs to no what is happening on the course at all times I personaly watch all licence passes wether it is a 175 parachute pull or a 80mph testing of a new vehical at these times southern rescue and the timing van are also watching for us to no what is happening. we need to be informed by the starter if it is a long course, short course, licence pass ect ,
Wind socks I agree we need wind socks I propose we have them at every mile
I would also like to see some sort of light at the I mile mark to advise drivers to abandon there run if there is a problem down the track or smoke ect
Regards ANIMAL
Member 151
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DLRA 200 mph club
going fast is my blast

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Lynchy
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Re: Crosswinds

Post by Lynchy » Thu Apr 16, 2015 2:06 pm

Animal

As I outlined above, the Starter still needs to call out the vehicle number and what the vehicle is doing (long course / short course / licence etc) after the vehicle leaves the line. This doesn't change.

Re lights at the 1 mile mark - technically difficult and of little benefit. The course is always closed unless Southern Rescue calls it clear. If they have done so then the next vehicle leaves. The track is only opened if the last vehicle has cleared the course therefore there is no vehicle on the course.

Lynchy

momec3
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Re: Crosswinds

Post by momec3 » Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:23 pm

Lynch,
Yes sorry for my brief reply. Yes meant yes, I agree with the direction you are heading.
A couple of thoughts, possibly off track a bit here but all related.
The startline assistants main job should be insuring racers are right and ready to race. He/she spends most of his time hearding cats and writing a multitude of info to be relayed to you. This responsibility distracts from his real job.
One number would reduce this, also a single queue that moves itself forward without constant prompting. (Racers responsibility).
Cookey, agreed. Its pointless training different people each year, some do a good job and give a damn, some just turn up like work for the dole with no real interest. WE NEED some continuity and dedication. This also means them choosing an area that interests them and coming back next year. If they race as well fine, it can be done but it needs 2 people to be trained in that job that can alternate.
Lynch, agreed, less is more. KISS.
Lights are just an added complication. Don't like that idea.
Chris

David Leikvold
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Re: Crosswinds

Post by David Leikvold » Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:30 pm

The topic of having observers comes up from time to time. I'm a fan so I'm thinking maybe we could hire an elevated work platform for the week, unless someone already has one, put it where the timing van used to be, provide a shade structure, an esky, binoculars and a toilet. One observer for each track,with their only job being to watch every competitor and advise Animal if they turn off early and head for the pits without tripping the timers. There would be no shortage of volunteers for the best seats in the house. They could also spot a crash marginally quicker than anyone else, particularly if it happened in the long course braking area.

Just as an aside to the medical crew, if a competitor has crashed and needs your help the track WILL be clear for you because there won't be any other competitor starting. Just keep an eye out for other support vehicles heading to the crash site.

Cheers
Chief Starter Dave
Good, Fast, Cheap, pick any two!

David Leikvold
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Re: Crosswinds

Post by David Leikvold » Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:48 pm

Here's the unexpurgated version:
My cardboard stop /go signs work well and cost nothing. They don't break down and I get thousands of photos taken of me :mrgreen: ! Next year I'll be charging $1 per photo to cover my fuel bill!
My volunteers were all pretty good this year, but I have struck some bludgers in past years. I wonder if any retired competitors would be interested in being full time volunteers? Next year my brother will be Chief Starter again and I will be cat herder and belt checker again.

Chief Starter Dave
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David Leikvold
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Re: Crosswinds

Post by David Leikvold » Sat Apr 25, 2015 4:29 pm

Does anyone know what crosswind speed stops the running at Bonneville?

Dave
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Greg Watters
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Re: Crosswinds

Post by Greg Watters » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:27 am

The starter/timer may close the race course in whole or in part when the wind velocity at any point exceeds 15 mph or any other adverse weather condition arises


In practice most fast vehicles hold at the start line when they get uncomfortable about the wind, which could be any where from 6-10 mph

you can request a wind reading from the various mile observers to plan a run

David Leikvold
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Re: Crosswinds

Post by David Leikvold » Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:15 am

Thanks Greg,
I'll have a weather station at the start line next year so I'll be able to tell competitors those important details and they can decide. If I think it's not safe I won't let them run. Of course, Animal has the final decision but if I am concerned I will discuss the problem with him first.

Dave :mrgreen:
Good, Fast, Cheap, pick any two!

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