Salt Question

internetscooter · Post by **internetscooter** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:13 pm

Is someone able to give me some calculated estimate of the value in dollars that the Dry Lake Race brings to Australia, South Australia and Mt Ives Station? I am after an official estmate that the DLRA will stand by (email paul dot mcintosh at internetscooter dot com).

I have found that there is funding for 08/09 research in the area up for grabs and researchers are currenlty applying for funding to fill in knowledge gaps about how the Gawler Ranges system works.

Basically the way research funding works, is there is a bucket of money and the people that prove they can spend the money with most benefit, get it. So if the Dry Lake Race brings in money (which I am sure it does), then a researcher can piggy back what we need on their proposal with a better chance to win the funding.

Cheers,

Paul

hawkwind racing · Post by **hawkwind racing** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:25 pm

I have been chasing up some of my own info ,here is a reply from some experts in the SA govt and another sourse to follow up , I contacted Henry some time ago and he has replied (see below)

Lake Gairdner‏
From: Mancini, Henry (DWLBC) (Mancini.Henry@saugov.sa.gov.au)
Sent: Friday, 28 March 2008 11:52:00 AM
To: LSR350@hotmail.com

Hi Gary

Firstly, sorry in the delay in responding to your phone enquiry re: Lake Gairdner surface condition. I have been talking to a number of experts in groundwater and their collective response is that natural salt "playa" lakes are areas of saline groundwater discharge where the water table is found close to the surface. The saline groundwater is drawn to the surface through high evapotranspiration rates especially over the hot summer months. This evaporates through the crust of the lake forming highly saline brines beneath the surface which is probably causing the 'mushy' surface conditions. These salt lakes are surface expressions of highly saline groundwater systems where groundwater discharge is found in closed or confined systems and upward groundwater flow stabilises the dense brines formed near the surface, however this can also cause instability and cause the brines to dissipate into the underlying groundwater, therefore affecting the system as a whole and destabilising the surface salt crust.

There is not enough information on Gawler Ranges hydrology and groundwater resources at present to conclusively say that this is the cause of the condition you have described but it is what is known at present in these arid zone salt lake systems as far as I am aware. One point to keep in mind is that the Gawler Ranges is a transition zone where there is little groundwater.

The SA Arid Lands NRM Board is currently working on developing 2 projects to collect baseline data to address these knowledge gaps. One will be satellite imagery of groundwater resources for the region and the other is hydrogeological mapping of the Gawler and Flinders Ranges.

I hope this information gives you some background. I can suggest you contact the Dept of Water Land and Biodiversity Conservation - Lloyd Sampson, hydrogeologist (08 8463 6970) who may be able to give you more detailed hydrological information for the region.

regards Henry
Henry Mancini
Water Projects Officer
SA Arid Lands NRM Board
G.P.O. Box 2834
ADELAIDE
South Australia 5001.
P: (08) 8463 7034
M: 0423 847 903
F: (08) 8204 9922

I will follow up with the new contact and see if any more light can be shed on the subject
cheers
Gary

internetscooter · Post by **internetscooter** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:47 pm

I will follow up with the new contact and see if any more light can be shed on the subject

That's the same guy I contacted - the latest is he is going to see Monday if our needs fit into their funding schedule Monday. I'll forward you the email and you can take it from their.

Post by **DLRA** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:31 pm

Alright I've started a page to begin to calculate what speed week is worth go to Financial implications of speed week, if forum members can't access this let me know.

By the quick look that I've had I reckon your talking a $4M event.

teamleader · Post by **teamleader** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:27 am

Does anyone know if anything more came of this?

internetscooter · Post by **internetscooter** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:49 am

I haven’t here anything but I’ve left it up to Gary

I have still kept my ear to the ground. I bumped into a remote satellite sensing expert overseas and he said it should be possible to get surface condition readings via satellite. He said that they use salt lakes for calibration for some types of readings (a flat surface for bouncing radar or something).

If that worked it would be a mater of requesting a regular satellite sweep (don’t know about cost).

I spoke to local remote sensing experts but they indicated that measurement was done by plane (which I’d image would be more expensive), however they gave me details of people more in the know.

If there is a possibility of some funding then I am sure that the Uni people would come to the party. I don’t want to bug people though if there isn’t a chance.

Reverend Hedgash · Post by **Reverend Hedgash** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:33 am

I heard they used salt lakes to set or reset the white balance on their satelite cameras...

Greg Watters · Post by **Greg Watters** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:56 am

They want to be sure which ones they use, ours was visibly redder than Bonneville, never noticed before , but the first day out there this year l kept looking at the salt thinking its not white its tinted..

Lynchy · Post by **Lynchy** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:38 am

Greg

I noticed that as well. It was almost a marble effect. Most probably red dirt from off lake that settled when the lake got flooded. Some areas were more black?

Lynchy

internetscooter · Post by **internetscooter** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:22 pm

Having seen the weather at the lake I can understand how totally unpredictable any forecasting of salt conditions would be. The lake seems to create it's own weather system, it would piss down at the edge and the pits would be dry.

If we wanted to attempt to predict conditions, maybe the first step would be a time lapse camera sitting at the cafe. Take a picture a day for a few months and see what it tells us. It would be pretty obvious from reflections how much water was about.

Reverend Hedgash · Post by **Reverend Hedgash** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:54 pm

That's a great idea Paul, not just because we'll see what goes on over the months we aren't there but it could be an extremely pretty document. Lots of amazing sunsets from that point. I'd go more than a photo a day and make it a real time lapse thingy.

As for the red I have noticed it before and it seems to be dust blown in with the wind as when you look back from the non windward direction the lake surface seems much whiter as the dust has only caught up on one side of the bumpy bits.

Aaaahhh. Can't wait to get back.

rH+

momec · Post by **momec** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:01 pm

Got some of the best sunset/rise shots this year.

The mud was in a layer about an inch down in the pits.

Did anyone see the snowball area at the 9 mile end.
It was like golf ball size salt balls that lay around the surface.
You could pick them up and throw them
I've never seen the salt like that before. None of us had a camera

Chris

Dr Goggles · Post by **Dr Goggles** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:05 pm

C Hanlon wrote:You could pick them up and throw them
I've never seen the salt like that before. None of us had a camera
Chris

shame no-one got that on camera,a "salt-ball fight"

momec · Post by **momec** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:22 pm

Got one square between Lynchs eyes,
pity about the windscreen.

Chris

teamleader · Post by **teamleader** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:56 am

Dr Goggles wrote:Good one.
'Scooter

This website is an invaluable tool to a club that is spread all over the country as a way of recording information and sharing ideas. The office bearers of the club are faced with several issues at the moment and this one concerning the systems that affect the condition of the lake is one that this website can go a long way toward solving. If you are reading this as a lurker( not a regular contributor, or someone who isn't registered ) and you think you can help then now is the time to stick an oar in . Be it technical knowledge , a connection within a department who may have knowledge or the ability to help or any other method of advancing the bank of information your input is needed now.

Poor communication , sitting on hands or just hoping it will get better won't increase the chances of us racing , hoping someone else will do it or leaving it to the office bearers is just overloading people who are devoting a lot of their time for little thanks already....

This is a great sport , a great bunch of creative people we have a great website here.....we can do great things.

To carry this a little further and to find the depth of expertise available within the club, may I suggest that all members be asked what skills and background each posseses and whether they would be prepared or able to help if asked. The info would of course have to be recorded - more work for someone - but in an effort to maybe save some money, make use of to hand expertise and unload the already overworked organisers it may be worth consideration.
For the future the application form to join the club could perhaps be modified by adding such questions.
What do you think?

Dry Lakes Racers Australia

Salt Question

more info

bummer

Re: nice work