Roof Chop Rules

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David Leikvold
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Location: Brisbane

Roof Chop Rules

Post by David Leikvold » Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:16 am

At our last meeting at Don's workshop two weeks ago I was talking with Bob Ellis about some ideas I'd had about the current roof chop rules. I particularly wanted to know how Bob could run a laid back windscreen when the presumably still current rule book (10/09/2006) I was sent when I joined last year specifically states in "5.7 Chopping" on page 17 "No laid back windscreens". Bob got out his 1998 SCTA rule book and sure enough, when he was building his car it was completely legal. Bob's chop is entirely sensible, all he had to do was chop the C pillar, leave the roof panel untouched and rake the windscreen pillars back to meet the roof again. It's dead simple, gives a great aerodynamic advantage and it really looks the goods. The current rules also dictate in 5.7 "Tops must be widened and/or lengthened to maintain the stock silhouette of the vehicle". That might be a good idea for road registered cars with windup glass and laminated windscreens but for our race cars it just seems like pointless work. Big Gaz did that for the Shaguar but had to buy another roof panel to get the bits he needed. I think Bob's rule makes much more sense. It would be much easier to lean the shortened B and C pillars in slightly to meet up again with the lower roof. On most cars the pillars wouldn't move in more than about 20mm and I challenge anyone not familiar with a particular car to spot the difference.
The rules also require (very sensibly) that glass be replaced with Lexan or similar when the glass area is modified. Bob related to me the miserable experience of spending hours trying to find and pick up hundreds of tiny cubes of clear safety glass off blinding white salt in 40 degree heat after someone rolled over a few years back. If the chop rule was changed back to what it was more people might do it and reduce the amount of glass at Speedweek.
And now that Bob's car is unfairly illegal the rule must be changed to recognise that the car was built to be legal. I don't want to suggest a grandfathering of eligibility because that does two things, it destroys the car's resale value and if the rest of us can't do the same mods it hits us with an unfair disadvantage. So that's what I'm proposing, reinstate the old rule to make Bob legal again and make roof chops more sensible. Any thoughts anyone?
Good, Fast, Cheap, pick any two!

Rob
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Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:30 pm
Location: Richmond, NSW. DLRA #888

Post by Rob » Sat Jun 07, 2008 8:11 pm

My first thought was "Why was the rule changed in the first place"?

Inquiring minds and all that.

Cheers,
Rob
I owe, I owe, so off to work I go.

David Leikvold
Posts: 978
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:57 pm
Location: Brisbane

a solution

Post by David Leikvold » Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:25 pm

Rob, I just got a PM from Bob who tells me essentially that our strange 2006 roof chop rule shouldn't be there. He told me that the 2008 SCTA rule book still hasn't changed since '98 so I will submit a proposal to change the rule back, thus restoring the commonality between DLRA and SCTA rules. And best of all, he said my interpretation of the engine setback rule is correct, it is not compulsory despite the capital letters, it is just one of the four options available to choose from to qualify for the class, so I can run a belly pan and be legal.
And for those who might have thought I was having a go at Bob, rest assured I was not. I just misunderstood what he was saying and fixated on the 25% engine setback rule. So all's well that ends well.
Good, Fast, Cheap, pick any two!

Dr Goggles
Posts: 1310
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:23 pm
Location: Right behind you Chief !

disappointed

Post by Dr Goggles » Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:57 pm

you weren't having a go at Bob?..

what are ya , weak or something?

how's it goin' Bob...ya big.......... :wink:
...few understand what I'm trying to do , but they vastly outnumber those who understand why..

ben james
Posts: 279
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:45 pm
Location: melbourne

Post by ben james » Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:20 pm

easy there tiger :twisted: had a dream about you last night stew, you sold me your monaro for $3000.
so when can i pick it up?
ben james dlra#389
moriwaki monster.

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BOB ELLIS
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Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 5:26 pm
Location: BRISBANE QLD , AUSTRALIA

Post by BOB ELLIS » Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:05 pm

Good to see people still read the forum,Monaro for 3 grand?Tell 'im he's dreamin'! Jousting sticks?So Goggles,i'm a big ??.Ya can go straight ta the pool room :D Cheers , Bob.

Rob
Posts: 1092
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:30 pm
Location: Richmond, NSW. DLRA #888

Post by Rob » Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:53 pm

Sounds like a group hug coming on? :wink:

Rob
I owe, I owe, so off to work I go.

David Leikvold
Posts: 978
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:57 pm
Location: Brisbane

no way!

Post by David Leikvold » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:11 am

Are you kidding Rob? Have a go at Bob? No way, Bob's a concretor and everybody knows that concretors hide all their victims under fresh slabs on building sites!! :wink:
Good, Fast, Cheap, pick any two!

momec
Posts: 667
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2005 8:15 pm

Post by momec » Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:27 pm

David
I'm with you on the roof chop rule change. My next project is to be in comp coupe and I will lay back the the pillars so lets fix the rule ahh. :D :D
Chris
Acme Racing #251

BIG GAZ
Posts: 331
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 2:52 pm
Location: Sydney

Post by BIG GAZ » Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:26 am

Yeah, that would be right! :D
Still only suits some cars, and still needs a fair bit of work, just ask my 4" grinder!
Big Gaz

David Leikvold
Posts: 978
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:57 pm
Location: Brisbane

plan B

Post by David Leikvold » Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:34 am

Gaz, would you like to submit a rule change proposal to Bob so that you can rake back your windscreen a bit, or is the roll cage too close for that? When I eventually get around to it I'll be proposing we go back to the SCTA rule with an allowance for Australian cars to be built to either rule. There will be people who have cars with your style of roof chop that may be converted to salt cars and we shouldn't exclude them.
Good, Fast, Cheap, pick any two!

BIG GAZ
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Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 2:52 pm
Location: Sydney

Post by BIG GAZ » Mon Sep 15, 2008 10:21 pm

My roof is too close to my head as it is!. We took 3" out so now the Kirkey has to sit 1" off the floor to fit me in. Even if I did lay the screen back the shape of the roof would still dictate that I would have to lengthen and widen the roof to keep it in proportion and lower the buttesses that slope back to the end of the boot. It was a lot more difficult than we originally thought. I think the rule book will have to cope with both types of chop, so I will have a choice with my next car!
Big Gaz

David Leikvold
Posts: 978
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:57 pm
Location: Brisbane

too close

Post by David Leikvold » Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:15 am

Gaz, the Celica is not much better. I was originally thinking about a big chop until I started checking and found that I had to sit on the floor to clear a 4" chop and then I could barely see out of the car. And even though I'm only 5'9" my brother and the other likely drivers are all over 6ft. So my chop will only be about 35mm. I still don't think it'll be entirely comfortable but that's OK because we aren't in it for long. I think it will look good too, it'll probably have people wondering has it or hasn't it been chopped?
Good, Fast, Cheap, pick any two!

BIG GAZ
Posts: 331
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 2:52 pm
Location: Sydney

Post by BIG GAZ » Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:00 pm

I work on the philosophy that if some is good then more is definately worth considering. I went 3" but until you know exactly what seat you are going to use, where your head sits in relation to not only the roof but the B pillar, the rake of the seat, the rake of the car so you can work out if you will be able to see over the bonnet and a hundred other things it is a bit of a guess.
Gaz

David Leikvold
Posts: 978
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:57 pm
Location: Brisbane

how lowlowlow?

Post by David Leikvold » Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:58 pm

The Celica's floor steps up at the back seat to go over the fuel tank which is in front of the back axle (so they can be sold in the USA). My seat will be far enough back to put me alongside the B pillar and with a custom steering column and floor mounted pedals I'll have no trouble getting a good fit for me and my tall co-drivers. Of course, it will be a while before anything more happens on the car, I'm having a great time and really freshening up my skills working on Trevor's car and there's always the faint possibility that I'll get a shed instead of a tarp. I'll get my roof chop rule change proposal to Bob at Don's next soiree and get that settled and then the next photos will be of the roof chop and roll cage.
Good, Fast, Cheap, pick any two!

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