which fuels are legal

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Raging Bull
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which fuels are legal

Post by Raging Bull » Fri Dec 25, 2009 4:07 am

I've been reading the DLRA rulebook to research the definition of allowable "gasoline" fuels so as to be be able to plan my engine and fuel system specifications for a H/GL car I'm currently designing.

Can anyone advise some of the different commercially available higher quality racing type fuels that are legal for gas - I don't really know any of them as I've always previously played with methanol fueled race engines...

Thanks in advance for any useful input...

Victor.

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Last Minute Racing
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Post by Last Minute Racing » Fri Dec 25, 2009 10:26 am

Good question. I have been thinking the same thing. We can get United 100 octane in SA now so that would be the go im thinking.
Im running a 2 stroke and have heard of people getting good results making up a blend of BP Ultima and 20% E85.
Good performance with a noticeable drop in running temp.
Both are pump fuel so is making a blend of the 2 legal to run as Gas ?

Merry Xmass to you all

Thanx
Dave

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BONES
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racing fuel

Post by BONES » Sun Dec 27, 2009 11:09 pm

Victor, I would think anything sold as petrol/gas should be ok for gas classes. There are loads of different fuels available from unleaded raceing fuel to c16 for turbos.I would think e85 would be in fuel class as it is an alcohol type fuel.Check Rocket Industries.
Cheers
Bones

Mossy
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Re: which fuels are legal

Post by Mossy » Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:04 am

The bike is close enough that I need to think about this as well. Could someone please tell me which of the following are legal to run in the gasoline class, a simple yes/no will be sufficient :D

BP Ultimate 98 unleaded
BP 100 leaded
Shell V power
Elf BFK-07 98 octane unleaded
RF100 leaded

Cheers Mossy
DLRA # 959

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gennyshovel
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Re: which fuels are legal

Post by gennyshovel » Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:17 pm

If you can pull up @ a service stn and it's available at the pump, its gas,,anything else,,is fuel Mossy
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AuotonomousRX
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Re: which fuels are legal

Post by AuotonomousRX » Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:57 pm

I would also like to know. I will be doing the final engine set up soon and like Dave I run a 2 stroke and I want to run a Race Type Fuel.

There was some discussion about this when the new rule book was adopted as Event Fuel was mentioned. http://www.dlra.org.au/forum/viewtopic. ... 2&start=30

As the rules state 'gas' has to have a DC OF 15.0 or less.

Once again I do not know what "a DC OF 15.0 or less" means and which Race Gasoline will pass this test.

This is basically the question that needs to be answered.

I suppose the easiest thing to do is what Tiny said, use Pump petrol in Gas and anything else run in Fuel Class.

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zork
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Re: which fuels are legal

Post by zork » Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:31 pm

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/liqui ... _1263.html
There is a huge difference between the DC of a Fuel and that of Gas. All racing fuels under 108 would be less than a DC of15.0
Cheers JD.

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zork
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Re: which fuels are legal

Post by zork » Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:38 pm

And if you really want to get into Dielectric Constants or DC's here you go.

http://www.asiinstr.com/technical/Diele ... stants.htm

Cheers JD.

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ChrisACT
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Re: which fuels are legal

Post by ChrisACT » Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:42 pm

AuotonomousRX wrote:I would also like to know. I will be doing the final engine set up soon and like Dave I run a 2 stroke and I want to run a Race Type Fuel.
There was some discussion about this when the new rule book was adopted as Event Fuel was mentioned. http://www.dlra.org.au/forum/viewtopic. ... 2&start=30

As the rules state 'gas' has to have a DC OF 15.0 or less.

Once again I do not know what "a DC OF 15.0 or less" means and which Race Gasoline will pass this test.

This is basically the question that needs to be answered.

I suppose the easiest thing to do is what Tiny said, use Pump petrol in Gas and anything else run in Fuel Class.

Stay Cool
You can buy e85 from the pump at some petrol stations. Something tells me that it would not be legal for gasoline class with 85% ethanol in it.

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zork
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Re: which fuels are legal

Post by zork » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:07 pm

Dean Los Angeles:
The question was posted in ECTA so I wonder how they handle gasoline. Is there an event gas? Do they hold a dielectric constant and test? The SCTA standard is a D.C. of 2.3

Quote


Q: What is the definition of Dielectric Constant?

A: The dielectric constant (DC) of a substance is a measure of the relative effectiveness of that substance as an electrical insulator. The perfect electrical insulator is a vacuum, which has a DC of 1.00000. By comparison, air has a DC of 1.00059, almost the same as a vacuum, and water has a DC value of 78.2. A dielectric meter measures the relative DC of gasoline by measuring the difference in capacitance of the probe between a standard (usually cyclohexane, with true DC value of 2.025) and the gasoline sample.

Q: Why is measurement of this characteristic an effective test for gasoline?

A: Gasoline as refined is a mixture of pure hydrocarbons. A unique physical property of a pure hydrocarbon fluid is that its DC is virtually the lowest of any liquid. The addition of power enhancing additives to gasoline, such as some oxygen and nitrogen bearing compounds, cause gasoline's DC to rise dramatically. A gasoline dielectric tester thus provides a simple, reliable way of determining whether a competitor's fuel has been adulterated.

Adding Ethanol to gasoline will increase the oxygen component. Ethanol is C2H5OH. Gasoline formulations don't have oxygen.

Running E85 would give a huge advantage over gasoline
Cheers JD.#921

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AuotonomousRX
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Re: which fuels are legal

Post by AuotonomousRX » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:19 pm

There in lies the problem

The question on this post is, what Gas/Petrol can be used in Gas Class?

I understand Premium Unleaded is OK, but what about the VP C16's or E85 etc Racing Gasoline's.

I don't want to know about the DC of fuel.

It is the 2012 Rule Book that outlines what is required and the DC seems to be what is tested at the Lake.

I looked up the Sunoco site and found some, not all, of their Race Gasoline's have the DC listed.

Is this what we need to do?

Find the Gas we want to run, and the Tech Sheet, send it to the Tech Committee and get the OK ?

I think most of us just want an answer to the question.

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Greg Watters
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Re: which fuels are legal

Post by Greg Watters » Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:32 am

Basicly comes down to power adding gasolines are fuel, that includes any with more than a little alky of any sort , or mtbe additives, oxygenated etc,
but gasoline type with or without various lead contents are gas ,
e 85 would be fuel it makes more power than an equivelant gas and c 16 gas as it does not make more power but its higher octane does let you run higher compression ratios
The actual event gases that scta use are available in Aust, there is a reseller in Melb, and i use one both here and there

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Dr Goggles
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Re: which fuels are legal

Post by Dr Goggles » Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:35 am

gennyshovel wrote:If you can pull up @ a service stn and it's available at the pump, its gas,,anything else,,is fuel Mossy
uh uh. Anything available at the pump?....not anything with "E" in the name...

yeah, same to you T'fer...........
...few understand what I'm trying to do , but they vastly outnumber those who understand why..

Mossy
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Re: which fuels are legal

Post by Mossy » Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:49 am

OK, this is from Race Fuels web site.
http://www.racefuels.com.au/index.asp

`Elf Race Fuels
Elf BFK-07
98 RON, 93 MON - Unleaded Fuel Produced by an Oil Company for Sale in the General Transport Market
Drum sizes available: 200litre, 50litre, 25litre, 20litre
Also available via retail petrol pumps'

So by Tinys definition Elf BFK-07 is legal. Though I will have to find out where the retail pumps are.
Then reading Gregs reply I get the impression it sounds like the BP100 and RF100 could possibly be legal.
JD tells me if we go by the DC, all the fuels I listed are legal.

Running a high compression (9.8:1) in a cast iron engine in the Vintage class I would like to be able to run a leaded fuel if possible, and the RF100 sounds ideal, But is it legal?

`RF 100 (leaded)
Leaded Racing fuel for classic bikes (track only)
200litre drums and 20litre drums
RF100 is also known as Racing 100 and Avgas. Please note that this is not an Elf Product. '


Couldn't the tech committee just give us a list of readily available fuel classed as `gasoline', full stop, and anything else will be considered `fuel'.

Cheers Mossy
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zork
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Re: which fuels are legal

Post by zork » Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:10 am

I buy my AV Gas from the pump at OG Speed Shop, show your DLRA member card, fill out the form for dispensation from Commowealth regs. You can also buy it in drums from any other suppliers, again fill out the paper work. AV Gas is a pump fuel as seen at any small airport filling up Cessnas etc. Use to fill my bikes and car at Goolwa airport while it was legal to do so.
Cheers JD.

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