2 strokes a can of worms.

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Dr Goggles
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Re: 2 strokes a can of worms.

Post by Dr Goggles » Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:38 pm

internetscooter wrote:Gary the simple solution is to talk to Greg about allowing enthusiasts to maintain sublists on the dlra.org.au website. The class record will still be the record, but there can be other lists where someone keeps a track of engine type (if they are that way inclined) or anything i.e. unofficial lists.

I was racing MPS/G 250 but the list I was aiming to be the top of is http://www.100mphscooter.com/100_mph_speeds.html - and even there I am initially aiming to only regain the title of world's fastest Vespa - not the overall top speed (yet). The VW's have a similar thing going.

I think something like that would encourage more racing because people can go for PB's of what ever someone else cares enough to maintain a list about :)

edit: Actually it could be an official list - the way the 100mphscooter list works is people submit official race tickets - so it would be easy to verify the record was real and the list owner only has to deal with people that want to submit their speed to a list.
Good point. There is a carry-on in the states about "traditional bellytanks" I keep saying that they can run their own register, it means something to them, they can mange it within the usual bounds of the club/meet.
ben james wrote: the lone 2 stroke in the 1000cc class probably has around 200 horsepower doing 240 mph ,
the turboed busa's have more than 400,
don't see that much of an advantage there.
Now, Ben has conveniently avoided a few points about class but ultimately he's right.

Everybody gets a ribbon.
...few understand what I'm trying to do , but they vastly outnumber those who understand why..

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BONES
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Re: 2 strokes a can of worms.

Post by BONES » Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:33 pm

Hawk
Get back in the shed-- there's less than a year to go
Bones

hawkwind
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Re: 2 strokes a can of worms.

Post by hawkwind » Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:13 am

Hey Bones how they hangin bloke :) ......... hey whats the damage for one of those universal chassis........ have access to a toy 4stroke from asia ......tryin to even out the competition against an army of smokers.
gary
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AuotonomousRX
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Re: 2 strokes a can of worms.

Post by AuotonomousRX » Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:08 pm

Gary is that a 6cyl 250 4 stroke??

Pete
Metric Target 250 on a 250 on a Red Bike

Pete :shock:
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hawkwind
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Re: 2 strokes a can of worms.

Post by hawkwind » Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:36 pm

:lol: Pete I wish ...... to many cylinders and CC's........ just got to handicap you 2 smokers hahahah
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AuotonomousRX
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Re: 2 strokes a can of worms.

Post by AuotonomousRX » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:43 pm

So Gary is that an equalisation factor

2 stroke capacity = cos of the
(C + PV + CV) X VeIC
divided by IOA squared

C:Cylinder,
PV:Port Volumeand
CV: Crankcase volume
VeIC: the Velocity of theIntake Charge
IOA: the Inlet Orifice Area

or is it easier to admit defeat and run a Stroker.

:twisted: Pete
Metric Target 250 on a 250 on a Red Bike

Pete :shock:
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hawkwind
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Re: 2 strokes a can of worms.

Post by hawkwind » Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:13 pm

No just place you up 2x capacity ie 250 to 500cc as every other racing body does, its not rocket science or you give me the $$$ to either double my rpm or allow me to run double your cacacity at same rpm or increase my comp ratio or any combo :) or run blown fuel against your NA. or ?????

Alls good :D
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RGV
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Re: 2 strokes a can of worms.

Post by RGV » Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:28 pm

Im all ears. What other form of racing places 2 strokes up 2x capacity? Your getting confused with rotaries and piston engines maybe. Double your RPM? 4 stroke 250s already do double what the 2 strokes do. Just go spend some $$ and dont be so tight. OR buy a 2 stroke and enjoy the speed. 8)

CATCH US IF YOU CAN

Dave

BTW I would put my 1989 2 stroke 250 up against any 1989 NA 500 4 stroke that was road legal and available to the public as mine was. Or do we need to race against the latest technology and double the capacity?

Last Minute Racing "its a 2-stroke ya twit - Its supposed to smoke"
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2011 Washed Out:(
2012 Washed Out:(
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2014 MPS/G 250 140 MPH (RECORD):)
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ChrisACT
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Re: 2 strokes a can of worms.

Post by ChrisACT » Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:59 pm

RGV wrote:Im all ears. What other form of racing places 2 strokes up 2x capacity? Your getting confused with rotaries and piston engines maybe. Double your RPM? 4 stroke 250s already do double what the 2 strokes do. Just go spend some $$ and dont be so tight. OR buy a 2 stroke and enjoy the speed. 8)

CATCH US IF YOU CAN

Dave

BTW I would put my 1989 2 stroke 250 up against any 1989 NA 500 4 stroke that was road legal and available to the public as mine was. Or do we need to race against the latest technology and double the capacity?
Yeah, gotta agree.

I'm happy to go against a 1974 200cc four stroke single on my 1974 100cc two stroke single. But to put me in the same class as a recent model 250cc twin cam 16+ valve four stroke 4 cylinder would be a tad unfair.

My bike had 9 horsepower when it rolled out of the Yamaha factory. What's a CBR250RR got? 30HP? Must be about that. That's before we even start "development".

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AuotonomousRX
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Re: 2 strokes a can of worms.

Post by AuotonomousRX » Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:19 pm

Looks like we'll need to penalise them new fangled 4cyl Bikes for dominating those bigger classes, cause they got a damm advantage over the Singles and Twins.

2011 Suzuki DR 650SE 43 hp 32 kW @ 6400 rpm

2011Suzuki GSX-R 600 124 hp 90.5 KW @ 13500 rpm

2011 Suzuki SV 650S 70 hp 51 kW @ 9000 rpm

Same class, :oops:, but, but,

Get to it then Gary you write your proposal, I'll write mine, :D :D :D

I agree with Bones.

Let's all get back in the Shed, I like meaningful discussion but Pointless ones :roll: :roll: :roll: .

Pete
Metric Target 250 on a 250 on a Red Bike

Pete :shock:
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hawkwind
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Re: 2 strokes a can of worms.

Post by hawkwind » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:44 pm

Being the owner of a suzuki 150R only for the asian market itsa single cylinder 4 stroke dohc , this and the equivalent honda are the fastest 4 strokes in that size, I was hoping to bring it here and run in the p/p 175 class ...... but im up against this sort of competition ...a honda NSR150 sp below are the specifications.

Honda NSR 150 sp :shock: Suzuki 150 R :oops:
displacement 149cc 147cc
CR 6.8:1 10.2:1
Max HP 38.96 @10.5K 16 @ 9.5k
max torque 26.97nm @10k 12.76 nm @8.5k
dry weight 122kg 95kg

for information only a Honda CBR250R has a max HP of 26........... oh well back to the shed ........yep them 2 smokers really need all the help they can get.
cheers
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ChrisACT
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Re: 2 strokes a can of worms.

Post by ChrisACT » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:50 pm

hawkwind wrote:Being the owner of a suzuki 150R only for the asian market itsa single cylinder 4 stroke dohc , this and the equivalent honda are the fastest 4 strokes in that size, I was hoping to bring it here and run in the p/p 175 class ...... but im up against this sort of competition ...a honda NSR150 sp below are the specifications.

Honda NSR 150 sp :shock: Suzuki 150 R :oops:
displacement 149cc 147cc
CR 6.8:1 10.2:1
Max HP 38.96 @10.5K 16 @ 9.5k
max torque 26.97nm @10k 12.76 nm @8.5k
dry weight 122kg 95kg

for information only a Honda CBR250R has a max HP of 26........... oh well back to the shed ........yep them 2 smokers really need all the help they can get.
cheers
Gary, you're comparing an air cooled 4 stroke commuter bike designed with economy and price in mind, with a water cooled two stroke sports bike designed to go fast and bugger the mileage.

It's not the just number of bangs per revolution that makes a difference between these two machines.

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RGV
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Re: 2 strokes a can of worms.

Post by RGV » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:15 pm

Dont know where ya getting ya specs from. 26 HP LOL ya kidding me?

CBR250RR
Power
Horsepower: 45 hp (33.6 kW) @ 15000 rpm

Maximum Torque: 21.5 Nm (15.6 ft. lbs) @ 12000 rpm

http://www.cbr250rr.com.au/articles/spe ... 250rr.html








Dave

Last Minute Racing "its a 2-stroke ya twit - Its supposed to smoke"
DLRA #928
SATA #10

2010 MPS/G 250 118 MPH:)
2011 Washed Out:(
2012 Washed Out:(
2013 MPS/G 250 131 MPH (RECORD):)
2014 MPS/G 250 140 MPH (RECORD):)
2015 MPS/F 250 DNF:(

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RGV
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Re: 2 strokes a can of worms.

Post by RGV » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:28 pm

hawkwind wrote: yep them 2 smokers really need all the help they can get.
cheers
Who was asking for help??

Ya ever heard the saying "if ya cant beat em, join em"?

Dave

Last Minute Racing "its a 2-stroke ya twit - Its supposed to smoke"
DLRA #928
SATA #10

2010 MPS/G 250 118 MPH:)
2011 Washed Out:(
2012 Washed Out:(
2013 MPS/G 250 131 MPH (RECORD):)
2014 MPS/G 250 140 MPH (RECORD):)
2015 MPS/F 250 DNF:(

hawkwind
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Re: 2 strokes a can of worms.

Post by hawkwind » Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:38 am

Dave
Dont know where ya getting ya specs from. 26 HP LOL ya kidding me?
Top speed mag for a 2012 CBR 250R not RR my point was to show that even a 4 stroke with almost double the capacity is still behind the eight ball compaired to a 150 2 stroke. or even if we add in the RR it still proves that the 150cc 2 stroke is not very far behind the performance curve of the top dog 250 4 stroke ....its that model of 2 stroke that holds the world record in the 175 class at over 130 mph

Chris..... please point me to any 150cc 4 stroke that was/is a production model and can still be purchased (new or second hand) that has exceptionally more performance than these 4 strokes? Again the point is to expose the vast power difference between 2 production models that represent the top of the performance ladder, its chalk and cheese.

Guys I admire that you want to race these small capacity 2 strokes it really does make racing afffordable and bang for buck you cannot beat a 2 stroke, I hope you all exceed in your dreams of a record :) Alas if I were to campain a 4 against a 2 in this class my hopes of a record would be just that ...a dream :(
cheers
gary
Vehicle......................A new creation.
Designed by................Troglodyte.
Engineered/ built by......Rustic.
Financed by.................Nickles & Dimes.
Rider......................... Tardus Vetus Inflatio

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