MAP Sensor

Moderator: DLRA

Stayt`ie
Posts: 894
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 11:47 pm
Location: Mackay

MAP Sensor

Post by Stayt`ie » Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:49 pm

im lookin for a MAP Sensor, something that will accuriatly read very low pressure differences in a "naturally aspirated" (RamAir) airbox,, planning to connect it to a WEGO111,, requires a 0-5V output,, suggestions, :?:
First Australian to ride a motorcycle over 200mph at Bonneville,,,

User avatar
Greg Watters
Posts: 749
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:57 pm

Re: MAP Sensor

Post by Greg Watters » Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:35 am

Ronnie any of the NA map sensors will do what you want
the gm ones are commonly used , but for your application try one that you would just drill a hole and press it in,Trumph bikes, & some late cars use them , it will save looking for a mount point and extra hoses feeding the sensor

Stayt`ie
Posts: 894
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 11:47 pm
Location: Mackay

Re: MAP Sensor

Post by Stayt`ie » Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:12 am

thanks Greg,, done a troll on fleebay where theres plenty GM and Ford sensors offered, sorta felt thay would do the job, just wasent sure, 8) ,,
First Australian to ride a motorcycle over 200mph at Bonneville,,,

Stayt`ie
Posts: 894
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 11:47 pm
Location: Mackay

Re: MAP Sensor

Post by Stayt`ie » Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:57 am

ok, next trick, three pins,, any idea on how to wire this in, i dont want to "fry" the chip,, :roll:
First Australian to ride a motorcycle over 200mph at Bonneville,,,

hawkwind
Posts: 274
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2010 3:50 pm

Re: MAP Sensor

Post by hawkwind » Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:57 pm

Ronnie both GM and Ford 1 bar map sensors are wired the following way
Pin A = ground
Pin B = sensor output
Pin C = reference voltage +5vdc

GM are Delphi brand and stamped either 039 or 460 or 883
cheers
Vehicle......................A new creation.
Designed by................Troglodyte.
Engineered/ built by......Rustic.
Financed by.................Nickles & Dimes.
Rider......................... Tardus Vetus Inflatio

Stayt`ie
Posts: 894
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 11:47 pm
Location: Mackay

Re: MAP Sensor

Post by Stayt`ie » Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:45 pm

Thanks Gary,, :D
First Australian to ride a motorcycle over 200mph at Bonneville,,,

harky
Posts: 157
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:03 am
Location: Adelaide

Re: MAP Sensor

Post by harky » Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:53 am

Greg would the busa IAPSsensor ( INTAKE AIR PRESSURE SENSOR) do the job ???
much smaller than the other map sensors and is specificly for very small changes to inlet pressure ie ram air
wiring diagrahm is 3 wire like the MAP sensors
I am wiring my busa and thought I would use that in stead of the larger sized MAP sensor --- so the question is timley
harky
harky
DLRA #643
so far 120mph for$2000---imagine how fast I can go for $20,000

JrZook
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:00 pm

Re: MAP Sensor

Post by JrZook » Sat Aug 23, 2014 4:50 pm

My 2c

Standard automotive MAP sensors typically have a range of 1bar = 14.7psi = 101 kPa, corresponding to an output voltage range of 4.5 V (4.7-0.2 V ). The resolution of these sensors would therefore be only 45 mV per kPa. In the case of the relatively small pressure differential that would exist across an air box (anyone got any idea what sort of magnitude this is?), this resolution would be considered rather course and prone to error both built into the sensor and into the A/D convertor in the WEGO111. Therefore the measurement resolution and accuracy would be rather poor. In layman's terms, this would be equivalent of measuring the cam ground profile on a piston with a newsagent ruler etc.

A much better solution would be something like a freescale MPX5010 pressure sensor that has on-chip signal conditioning, temperature compensation and calibration. It has a range of 10 kPa and therefore a resolution of 450 mV/kPa. You can get the MPX5010DP which has a casing with two hose tails for easy connection from Digikey for about $15

http://www.digikey.com.au/product-detai ... -ND/464054

Dan

Stayt`ie
Posts: 894
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 11:47 pm
Location: Mackay

Re: MAP Sensor

Post by Stayt`ie » Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:53 pm

g'day JrZook, thankyou for your 2c,s worth, interesting,,,

let me say upfront, that when it comes to this "whiteman magic stuff" i struggle to understand it, however you ask about the small pressure differences at velocity, this i revell in, ok, the following is a quick sample that i calculated, relitave to my motor,, although thay may not be "spot on", i have referenced them with differing conditions over the last eight years and thay are (for me) "pretty close",, these are for the 2002 Kawasaki ZX12R, based on OEM RamAir/Airbox,,
100mph = +.1736psi, 190mph = +.6267psi, 195mph = +.6601psi, 200mph = +.6944psi, 205mph = +.7296psi, 210mph = +.7656psi,, we see a positive pressure increase 1.0psi @ 240mph,,

i havent ordered a sensor yet, was planning on doin that this coming week, in the meantime will be interested on your thoughts concerning the information supplied above in connection to the link you have supplied,,

thankyou once again,,,,
First Australian to ride a motorcycle over 200mph at Bonneville,,,

harky
Posts: 157
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:03 am
Location: Adelaide

Re: MAP Sensor

Post by harky » Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:43 pm

mmmmmmm
I might wait to see where this goes before I do the final wire ing
We do have people who give GOOD advice
keep talking ------- I m listening
harky
harky
DLRA #643
so far 120mph for$2000---imagine how fast I can go for $20,000

JrZook
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:00 pm

Re: MAP Sensor

Post by JrZook » Sat Aug 23, 2014 11:10 pm

Stayt`ie wrote:these are for the 2002 Kawasaki ZX12R, based on OEM RamAir/Airbox,,
100mph = +.1736psi, 190mph = +.6267psi, 195mph = +.6601psi, 200mph = +.6944psi, 205mph = +.7296psi, 210mph = +.7656psi,, we see a positive pressure increase 1.0psi @ 240mph
These values are very suited to the MPX5010 which has a range of 0 - 1.45 psi.
There is only a 0.6psi (4.15 kPa) difference between 100-210mph in those figures. This would be equivalent to an output voltage swing of around 2.1V on the MPX compared to only around 0.21 V on a typical 1-bar sensor. Assuming the WEGO111 has a 5 volt referenced, 10-bit A/D convertor that would be equivalent to 430 quantized voltage steps and a resolution of 0.00139 psi.

Stayt`ie
Posts: 894
Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 11:47 pm
Location: Mackay

Re: MAP Sensor

Post by Stayt`ie » Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:06 pm

These values are very suited to the MPX5010 which has a range of 0 - 1.45 psi.
There is only a 0.6psi (4.15 kPa) difference between 100-210mph in those figures. This would be equivalent to an output voltage swing of around 2.1V on the MPX compared to only around 0.21 V on a typical 1-bar sensor. Assuming the WEGO111 has a 5 volt referenced, 10-bit A/D convertor that would be equivalent to 430 quantized voltage steps and a resolution of 0.00139 psi.[/quote]

The paperwork i have says that the WEGO is good for a sensor with 0-5v output, so based on that im guessing the MPX5010 will do the job,,

Will be ordering two Monday night,(nothing happens in the US until then), have decided to set one up on my ZX12R Dragbike, given that i have the opptunity to run it every three or so weeks will give me the chance to learn/experiment a little,,

Steve?, anyone else ??, want one while im ordering, :?: , i can cover the costs for now and we'll sort it all out once thay arrive, :D ,, just bear in mind that since the trouble in Iraq started, its taking "forever" to get stuff from overseas, i dont expect to see these for "at least" 4-6 weeks,,
First Australian to ride a motorcycle over 200mph at Bonneville,,,

User avatar
Greg Watters
Posts: 749
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:57 pm

Re: MAP Sensor

Post by Greg Watters » Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:20 am

Good info

Harky, if your using a std ecu use the std sensor, there is no way to recalibrate it for another sensor , excepting a gen 2 with boost fuel activated, that has a recalibration to a GM 3 bar sensor as part of the boostfuel subroutine

harky
Posts: 157
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:03 am
Location: Adelaide

Re: MAP Sensor

Post by harky » Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:59 am

Im using an M84 on a Gen 1 , Greg
Ronnie and I are organising a couple of the suggested sensors
the cost shown and the scale they are designed for == winner for me
the question of using the busa sensor -( with the Motec) was based on it works on a busa for exactly what we are talking about
and --- for me , not being ëxperienced "@ doing the calibration , would it be a goer ??
But these other units are THE GO !!
and thanks to JrZook for the imput
harky
harky
DLRA #643
so far 120mph for$2000---imagine how fast I can go for $20,000

JrZook
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:00 pm

Re: MAP Sensor

Post by JrZook » Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:48 pm

Does anyone have a service manual for the busa? They usually have some sort of transfer characteristic to check the sensor pressure vs output in there. Once you have that you can usually cross reference off the shelf sensors and match it up.

Post Reply