Commodore Valuables

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Dr Goggles
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Re: GREMLINS

Post by Dr Goggles »

ROSS BROWN wrote:DOC
Food for thought.
Solid lifters , words I love to see ,those other nandy pandy disgusting hydrualic thingies belong in Ganmas car ONLY.
Those little horrors have a little GREMLIN built into every one of them,some to lazy to push & some push to hard. Which in turn becomes the source of a multitude of problems.
Prolonged high rpm will have some pumping up & some pumping out.
WHY IS IT SO ?

At a guess I would say you were getting both pump up & pump out, it was probably the later that helped undo your rocker stud & also created a high percentage of the blow by that started putting unwanted pressure on your seals as the valves were staying closed to long ,

SOLID LIFTERS is an excellent step in the right direction.
POSITIVE changes to your oiling system .
Deburr all sharp edges & daggs through the oil feed routes ,so little bubbles cant be created ( often neglected point ) there are some anti foaming additives that I know your are aware of . but there is also the option of shifting over to high quality motorcycle oils. as some of those little suckers can rev to 19000 rpm with plain bearing cranks.

CHEERS Ross.


Ross, you're too kind. But yeah you're right about "research".... each time I've mentioned the lifters I made the point we didn't really know whether they were pumping up or collapsing but from the way the speed suddenly went away it had to be them. The likely reason that we got the oil leak was that on the 192 run I saw the speed drop and got straight out of it, the next time I couldn't read the tach or the GPS and just stayed in it til I saw the 7 mile flag , I may well have been back down around 170 by then with the valves hanging open/staying shut like stunned mullets. From what I've worked out we are victim to a couple of phenomena.

1./ the oil pressure relief may be poor thus allowing excess pressure at sustained high revs.dubious.

2./ The oil is "going around" so quick it isn't getting a chance to disperse the bubles ( hang on he's a singer) the BUBBLES thus it is foaming, the lifters are collapsing...

3./ a combination of the two. The lifter oil gallery would be sized so as to run at optimum in the usual rev-range of a road car, that's not us. when the revs rise above this the exposure that the lifters have to the gallery limits the fill/drain time AND the pressure along it would not be constant....and we get problems.

We have a single home-made vac-u-pan arrangement at the moment, I intend to fit another AND a non return valve to the crank-case. This will prevent any nasty consequences just in case the blow by exceeds the vacuum we are generating in the crank case. I'm also considering drain backs from the rocker covers.

It was almost without a doubt the lifters that brought us undone this year but the fact is the car wouldn't have gone that much faster on the available track.In top gear it was putting on 12mph/per mile. Before we gear it down we need a little more power because lets say that figure dropped to 10 and we left the 1/4 trap at 180...we'd need 3 miles to get to the speed that the car will run at 7000rpm...if we have a full track we might get 180 by that point but this year with the short run up we were only at 155, 160........ If we don't have more power we will be out the back door when we are still accelerating.

So that's where the heads come in.Better flow, more accurate valve control.....more power.

In the meantime I'm hoping that next year the track is smoother and the wind isn't as strong because I had a busy time with it at 193, there are various things I want to sniff over that were slightly different than the year before when the car was a pussy, other than the speed.

We've got plenty to do now, for the next three years or so....bring it on. :wink:
...few understand what I'm trying to do , but they vastly outnumber those who understand why..
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ROSS BROWN
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Post by ROSS BROWN »

DIRECTION IS GOOD.
The Vac pump is good idea but has a side affect. too much vacum at idle and on backrun will pull the engine seals inwards (thus letting the outside in) pro stock drag guys :shock: (wash my mouth out ) use a vac pump from some model cadilac, when first testing this idea pulling seals was an issue . they then put the seals in backwards .this solving the problem.
Just thought I'd share that.
Dont want ya pullin any seals :shock: people might start to talk :wink:
IT IS ALL A RACE AGAINST TIME.
TIME WAITS FOR NO ONE.

HOW FAST CAN YOU GO ?

S/UF 925
Dr Goggles
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Post by Dr Goggles »

ROSS BROWN wrote:DIRECTION IS GOOD.
The Vac pump is good idea but has a side affect. too much vacum at idle and on backrun will pull the engine seals inwards (thus letting the outside in) pro stock drag guys :shock: (wash my mouth out ) use a vac pump from some model cadilac, when first testing this idea pulling seals was an issue . they then put the seals in backwards .this solving the problem.
Just thought I'd share that.
Dont want ya pullin any seals :shock: people might start to talk :wink:


unlikely we'll be running a vacuum pump, a vac-u-pan is free power, simple and doesn't take up much space...........doesn't make much vac at idle, makes heaps when the blow-by and windage are at their max.Then, if we use a NRV and we get more blow-by than vac it'll vent.
...few understand what I'm trying to do , but they vastly outnumber those who understand why..
blownvn
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Post by blownvn »

If the oil pressure starts goign away in the top end an oil accumulator might be a good investment too.
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ROSS BROWN
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Post by ROSS BROWN »

OKAY ALL GOOD !
MY Reedin is as bad as me spelin !
IT IS ALL A RACE AGAINST TIME.
TIME WAITS FOR NO ONE.

HOW FAST CAN YOU GO ?

S/UF 925
grumm441
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Oil is oils

Post by grumm441 »

Ross
We don't mention full synthetic motorcycle oil
G
They make it
I make it work
momec
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Post by momec »

Doctor

If you go solid lifters which you do need to do please run a solid cam to suit. You hav'nt mentioned the most important component in an atmo motor (the cam) and l feared you might do the old fasioned trick of throw some solids on the hydraulic cam
The right cam will make you heads work better to.

We run up around 23" vacuum in Supercar crankcases with seals the right way round but use teflon type seals. Some go in backwards depending on the application.
Cup Porsche put the rear seal backwards and the rest foward but restict there vacuum to around 16" merc.

Chris
Acme Racing #251
grumm441
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Post by grumm441 »

C Hanlon wrote:Doctor

If you go solid lifters which you do need to do please run a solid cam to suit. You hav'nt mentioned the most important component in an atmo motor (the cam) and l feared you might do the old fasioned trick of throw some solids on the hydraulic cam
Chris


Chis
It's alright
I don't let them inside the motor, they can do enough damage without opening it up.
In fact it reminds of a sign at a workshop I used to work next door to
It read "no one who even played with sand as child, allowed beyond this point"
the next cam will be a solid profile cam
Looking at one of wades cams
G
They make it
I make it work
Dr Goggles
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Location: Right behind you Chief !

Post by Dr Goggles »

grumm441 wrote:
C Hanlon wrote:Doctor

If you go solid lifters which you do need to do please run a solid cam to suit. You hav'nt mentioned the most important component in an atmo motor (the cam) and l feared you might do the old fasioned trick of throw some solids on the hydraulic cam
Chris


Chis
It's alright
I don't let them inside the motor, they can do enough damage without opening it up.
In fact it reminds of a sign at a workshop I used to work next door to
It read "no one who even played with sand as child, allowed beyond this point"
the next cam will be a solid profile cam
Looking at one of wades cams
G


bloody hell, did someone shit the bed at your place? 7.43am? aren't you supposed to be going to work?...

Already on the read about this.....anyone want to buy a 1365a Wade cam?

"Like sand through the hourglass, so are the days of our lives"
...few understand what I'm trying to do , but they vastly outnumber those who understand why..
momec
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Post by momec »

We don't all play in rocknroll bands n sleep till 3 :lol:
Chris

Thank goodness Grumm, l was a bit worried :?
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Dr Goggles
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zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Post by Dr Goggles »

C Hanlon wrote:We don't all play in rocknroll bands n sleep till 3 :lol:
Chris

Thank goodness Grumm, l was a bit worried :?


yeah, maybe....always been a morning man here Hano......

Now, for those who don't know ....Hydraulic lifters are a bit like coil-over shocks and great at taking up slack....when it comes to solids there is always a certain amount of lash, that means the valve needs a different "ramp-up" profile on the cam and needs a slightly earlier start when it is faced with a solid lifter so as to combat the lash which would be taken up by the expansion of a hydraulic lifter.....

did I pass?.......
...few understand what I'm trying to do , but they vastly outnumber those who understand why..
ben james
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Post by ben james »

hydraulic lifters & pushrods, i can't beleive you car engine guys.
real engines have cams that open the valves directly.
long live the kawasaki z1000 engine.
ok stirred up enough shit, better get to bed. :P
ben james dlra#389
moriwaki monster.
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ROSS BROWN
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Post by ROSS BROWN »

YEAH
I cant understand it either Ben :shock:
How are they ever going to time it properly with only one camshaft. :?
Think Ill go to bed to :P
IT IS ALL A RACE AGAINST TIME.
TIME WAITS FOR NO ONE.

HOW FAST CAN YOU GO ?

S/UF 925
ben james
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Post by ben james »

ROSS BROWN wrote:YEAH
I cant understand it either Ben :shock:
How are they ever going to time it properly with only one camshaft. :?
Think Ill go to bed to :P

shh, keep it down ross they probably don't even know you can have two in there :wink:
ben james dlra#389
moriwaki monster.
grumm441
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Post by grumm441 »

ben james wrote:
ROSS BROWN wrote:YEAH
I cant understand it either Ben :shock:
How are they ever going to time it properly with only one camshaft. :?
Think Ill go to bed to :P

shh, keep it down ross they probably don't even know you can have two in there :wink:


Yep
I don't get it
I've got one in the shed with four cams in it
but they just will not put it in
G
They make it
I make it work
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