Commodore Valuables

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grumm441
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Re: Commodore Valuables

Post by grumm441 » Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:51 pm

Last Minute Racing wrote:Coopers Sparkling Ale long neck with a cork in it?? :roll:

Nice looking bits from the States BTW.

Thanx
Dave

Nope
Cooper bottle with home brew in it
Can't drink sparkling
G
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ROSS BROWN
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Re: Commodore Valuables

Post by ROSS BROWN » Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:40 pm

Is that a combustion leak into the jacket ????
and why are the heads running at two different tempratures ??????
what does the top of the pistons look like ??????


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IT IS ALL A RACE AGAINST TIME.
TIME WAITS FOR NO ONE.

HOW FAST CAN YOU GO ?

S/UF 925

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Re: Commodore Valuables

Post by grumm441 » Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:18 pm

ROSS BROWN wrote:Is that a combustion leak into the jacket ????
No
and why are the heads running at two different temperatures ??????
Trick of the light
what does the top of the pistons look like ??????
Light carbon, no marks

G
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Dr Goggles
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Re: Commodore Valuables

Post by Dr Goggles » Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:12 pm

Well after that hand wringing the motor is toast. 40 thou over, dead as a nit. Fortunately we have a bunch more of em.....but we're gonna have get a wriggle on.........
...few understand what I'm trying to do , but they vastly outnumber those who understand why..

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Re: Commodore Valuables

Post by Dr Goggles » Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:49 pm

Take two: We found a project build on eBay that had fallen over which had pretty much all the same bits that were in the motor we just wrecked , it cost less than the rebore of one of the blocks we had would have cost . A machined block with new pistons a manual crank and all new bearings and gaskets. just needs a little bit of a lick in the bores. The Colonel is going to get the pistons coated.

The considered opinion is we got the most out of that motor . It was leaning out, shown by the pistons tops and the blueing , the unbalance and the loose flywheel caused the crank to flex which hammered the bearings letting the oil out , the scuffing was probably a combo of both the heat and the low oil pressure and too tight clearances.

So more fuel, some tidy oil mods( and more of it) a rethink on the crank-case vacuum and some coating on top of the slugs, a proper manual crank so we don't need an adapter boss and a proper balance.....this year we'll be able to see, and with a bit of luck we'll get 200.

adios.
...few understand what I'm trying to do , but they vastly outnumber those who understand why..

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Re: Commodore Valuables

Post by Dr Goggles » Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:19 am

OK , progress report.

We have done the basic clean up on the frame , degreased and descaled and then slopped on a bit of enamel to keep the tin worms at bay.

The new engine build has started, we had an issue with the cam grind , that has been sorted out.we had another problem with the timing chain as we are using a series two cam in a series one block and neede to change the thrust plate on the cam.We have a bit of high temp ceramic on the exhaust and manifold courtesy of Andrew at Competition Coatings in Coburg.A new set of injectors after discussion in the camp about going to bigger injectors we opted for a brand new set of standard ones , allowing us to use the standard fuel pressure reg and avoid a full remapping of the fuel. Last years pile of scrap, motor, seemed to have leaned out on one side..... we are adding another vac-u-pan and this time the it will run to the crank-case breather rather than off one head which is another issue that had been debated in the "camp".

So,the motor is running a very long duration cam(specs elswhere here), 9.6:1 comp , solid valve train and the Trick and Mansweto heads I picked up last year. We might get time to make a larger sump.

We have made the stipulated changes we were required to do for the scrutineers, main shut off on the hot side of the battery with a switch on the engine bay extinguisher, more drain holes in the bottom of the body, and a wiring tidy up.Though not mentioned we will be shortening the cheek bars .

We are changing the chute activation from a solenoid to a cable pull and we have changed the steering column and release from a home made chain and pin to a store bought quick release. The old one was easier to get to, and worked without a hitch . The new one is fidlier but everyone likes to see items with "racing" written on them and anodizing or powder coating on them.......

We have a new fire suit this year, SFIO3.2/20 that I bought second hand from the states and had re-certifed at Deist. We also have a new SA2010 helmet on the way from the US. Despite the tired old argument about $2 heads the pricing on helmets is outrageous and the scrag fight about rating standards is dodgy too, I'm here to say we should be able to use FIA.

I've bought a Ford Trader tow truck, just a flat bed 3 litre diesel.....we know how the car is getting to the lake this year, slowly. I've decided to leave the "transport" tyres at home this year and will just tie the car down on it's belly with some old tyres undrneath her. Just in case anyone is wondering , it's not a good idea to trailer your car with the lightweight carcass race tyres on it.

I just called John Nightingale from Wormald to re-check the extinguishers, after a debacle in our first year we have elected to empty them each year, store the ColdFire in a lightproof plastic container and have them refilled each year. It eliminates the risk of the AFFF coagulating and blocking the dip-tubes making the unit inoperable and also eliminating the risk of the contents eroding the aluminium cylinder , it happened to the first four we had. Annual checks , cheaper than replacement and good peace of mind.


On we go......
...few understand what I'm trying to do , but they vastly outnumber those who understand why..

loosebits
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Re: Commodore Valuables

Post by loosebits » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:12 pm

Hey Dr ,Loosebits here aka Mick in brissy did u recieve your safety stuff from US as i too ordered gear not yet arived.Cheers

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Re: Commodore Valuables

Post by Dr Goggles » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:57 pm

loosebits wrote:Hey Dr ,Loosebits here aka Mick in brissy did u recieve your safety stuff from US as i too ordered gear not yet arived.Cheers
not yet..
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Re: Commodore Valuables

Post by Dr Goggles » Thu May 26, 2011 11:28 am

It's busy at the SOS Possum Park and Bellytank workshop lately but some of this has been posted elsewhere....

I'm edging ahead on the differential transplant job....from the Borg Warner to a GM 10 bolt.

I had a crack at removing the plug welds that hold the axle tubes into the centre housing on the weekend, I am not exactly sure where the material sits on the *GRTOH( generally recognized table of hardness)but it was harder than what they make drill bits out of....I had a certain Colonel suggest cobalt drills....I baulked at the price and anyway I flattened the tip of my centre-punch on it, another suggestion was stellite... but they'll cost me $200 and then I still have to mount the diff centre somewhere on my drill press table and that strikes me as potentially troublesome.

The maintenance man at work Markput me onto a small engineering works out near the airport ...."Yeah, we'll have a look at that, we'll be able to get them out"....so I'm off to see Stephen on Saturday morning. I will take the chunk of hollow bar that I got yesterday which will be used to turn up the inserts which we'll use to slide into the axle tubes and attach the new diff centre . It is 50 ID by 70 OD , it wasn't cheap

*
1./ Harder than goats knees.
2./ Harder than chinese algebra
3./ Harder than a mother in law's stare

I could have a crack at them with a torch but the housing is either grey or graphite iron and will likely let go before the weld . The welds look to be about half an inch dia. and as I said they are so hard that they took the point off a centre punch, I made a well in one with a burr ( so a drill could at least start)but a bit still just felt like it was sitting in a bearing, made heat and made the bit blunt but that was it.

All of the welds have a bubble in the top of them which makes it look like they were very hot and then probably because of the bulk of the housing cooled very quickly and are probably pure martensite.
Sparky , or Bill Smith in Phoenix Arizona was the guy who organised the 10 bolt and Torsen centre as well as the housing for us, the Norm brought it back from Bonneville.....Sparky said...
"we take them out with a torch----leaves room for BIG rosett welds thought about trying a hole saw!!!"

I was standing there with my set of hole saws......and thought hmm , nah...... pretty hard to wrangle one of those without a guide bit in it....

I figure annealing them and drilling or a torch is probably going to be the final chapter in this short but thrilling story.........

I need to get the insert pieces turned and so I'm going to take it all to the above mentioned workshop and see what they reckon.....

Quote from: wobblywalrus on May 17, 2011, 11:37:20 PM
A stone bit in an angle grinder?

anything that is small enough to get to them doesn't have enough edge speed to do anything, except the die grinder and with the amount of progress it made I estimated the entire job to take about 3 infinitys........

I'm pretty sure Sparky will get the biscuit on this one, for cryin' out loud he's done it before.......

So, Bill do you run a shrink weld around the inside of the tube after you blow the the plug welds out or what?Huh

c'mon give over..

To Which Sparky replied...."When we took the tubes out of the Caddy 10-12 we tried several things. But the way we got them out was to cut the plugs out and rotate the housing with a 36" pipe wrench to make sure that it was all out then cut the tube off flush, then carefully cut it out of the housing. inserted the new tubes and allinged the new tubes. We hard tacked the out side with 3 welds but did not weld insided at all for this was a frt driving axle and we need to be able to install an inner seal. we are now working on another that we will tack inside and out before we reweld plugs completely
"


hah, Had the angle grinder not been making such a racket I might well have heard the little voice in my head saying " nay laddy! dooon't cut the toooobs off yet".....

As it stands they are cut off flush, I'll report back on Saturday with what I hope is a successful extraction........

Gidge 348 from the DLRA said....
"If you are having problems drilling anything a trick I learnt from an old engineer is to get a masonary bit....

(yes masonary as in concrete) and then grind a face on the bit.

I do not know what they make those tips out of but I guarantee it will drill through anything.....

Regards

ian
..."

Stellite probably..Rockwell C 60-62 hardness even into the "red" range so it works by heating the job til it softens...that's what the little piece is in the tip of the masonry bit......it's a lot cheaper than a stellite drill

Went to the machine shop, no worries ! on the way out I see what looks like 2/3rds of a car...." what are you doing with that?"........"Oh I wish it'd go to the tip, it's the boss's"...

"er how much does he want for it?"

to cut a long story short I drove home( seeings how I just happened to be in a TOW-TRUCK) with a Ford Prefect missing the firewall and front bodywork back to the middle of the roof

$300.... Image



Just to refresh the memory We have this sitting in my back yard....
Image



I was going to use a Prefect front end....this one has everything...
Image



and a tiny little diff.....
Image



Except for the odd nut and bolt It's complete from the floor down.....So....I have the front end needed for the little rust racer, the rear end , four wheels, suspension ,steering , brakes( yes cable brakes).....

The original idea was to build a small tube chassis......hmmmm, but now I have one I can narrow a lot and shorten a little....check out the cute little steering box.
Image



you'll notice Colonel that is the horn wire appearing at the end of the steering column........

The Reverend dug this up about Prefects...

Some info on the Australian Ford Prefect for those interested: (The following is from http://ford-popular.com/)

Ford Motor Company of Dagenham designed the 10hp 7W car for launch in March 1937, of a style and design which to which the new motor user was to become very attached, and where Ford parted from vehicle model designation of identifying letters and numbers to name it the 'Prefect'. To the motoring public it became the 'Ford Pop' or 'sit up and beg' Ford.

The 7W Ten used the 10hp 1172cc side valve engine, on a 94" wheel base chassis, continuing the proven layout of transverse front and rear spring with torque tube. The 7W was offered in both 2 door with 4 light (side windows) and 4 door (6 light) form, all with deluxe features, fold down boot panel and removable spare wheel locker lid, opening windscreen etc.

The frontal and side aspect of this model was not dissimilar to the more basic 7Y model offered later with 8hp engine. However the launch of the Prefect E93A in 1939 showed many differences. Gone was the sloping front cowl to be replaced by a V shaped radiator grill, the centre hinged bonnet gave way to the 'alligator' type bonnet of one piece hinged at the rear. From now on the Ford Prefect was only offered in 4 door (6 light) saloon form on the home market, as it continued until it's demise.

There were variants of tourer and van, these were offered only for the export market. The Australian market, at this time assembling knock down kits and part builds at the Geelong assembly plant, had additional models of E03A produced 1939 to 1945 and A53A produced 1946 to 1948 in car and van form, these were exclusive to their own market.

In 1948 the Ford Prefect E493A was given another slight make over externally, replacing the previous free standing headlamps to those set into the front wing. Over the production period of the Ford Prefect 'upright' which finished in 1953, the vehicle remained virtually unchanged, there were slight alterations, a swage line here, a badge change, interior detail changes etc, but it retained rubber running boards throughout the production when other manufacturers had radical style changes. Ford replaced it with the Ford 100E Prefect at the end of 1953, but the success of the 10hp Ford Prefect E93A and E493A together with the export variants achieved a production build of 320,336 units. This in itself was an achievement which Ford could have been proud of.

The fledgling motoring public took the Ford Prefect to heart, the cars served well, enabling those days of 'happy motoring' to be enjoyed by the masses, a true family car, one of the Ford family. These vehicles are still worth preserving, capable of giving good reliable service. Do not be in a rush, they are not a sports car, custodians of survivors get great pleasure and enjoyment from using these vehicles which are very capable of normal motoring use at a very comfortable speed. The 10hp 1172cc Ford Prefect restorer or repairer is able to obtain most items required for continued use and maintenance from specialist mail order spare parts suppliers, who are able to ship world wide. further details please click here.


Wait a minute.... Its a Ford!!!

What kind of confused bi-brand kid are you? This is Australia mate, and it is either Ford OR Holden, as George would say, you are either with us or against us ( rolleyes).

Any way, that lunatic rant aside, I too have some ideas about how to do this and I think your idea of using rails is on the money, but maybe not the existing ones...

Here are the dimensions of the frame anyway, I can model her up in no time to test various ideas. Just need dimensions of the tank!
Image

You still haven't answered my question... is this to be a racing tank or Belly tank lite?
Reverend H+

I sent you a text yesterday saying ...."I'm not building another race car anytime soon"....... This will be a back in the day job....narrow the chassis after lopping it fore and aft of the transverse spring mounts......it's ten inches longer than it needs to be, I can narrow most of the cross members......box the frame rails in .

The main approach is to build it for Chopped and it's eighth mile dirt drag......I figure we get it running with the 250 twin and then go looking for something with a little more stick like a Firestorm/Superhawk. I'll try and get some measurements from the SeaFury tank this week....

I drilled the rivets out of the middle three crossmembers ...the body is welded onto the chassis at the back but I'll soon have it off...

Image
Image


You know those flat wrecking bars that have a claw at each end...and a sticker that says "do not strike, wear protective goggles" ...yeah well that's sensible advice ...I dunno where one end of mine went when I was using it to pry the body off the chassis rails and giving it some help with a ball-pein...there's two inches missing , no sign of it....
You are going to be one of those guys in the news 20 years from now who has their head X-rayed and they find the reason for your 20 years of headaches due to a rusting 2" piece of metal lodged in your brain somewhere behind your eye...

Check now for any sticky bits on your head that could in fact be an entry wound.

Phone flat yesterday as I was, got some crappy cold that makes me feel like I've smoke 20 rollies without any filters.

Given this is steel what say we cut it in half first so we know excatly what we are playing with? This one is too small to waste any millimetres on the interior.

I can come around this weekend with a big sheet of paper so we can get an acurate measure regardless.

rH+

Quote
I can come around this weekend with a big sheet of paper so we can get an acurate measure regardless.

Yes.That will nail it. Have the sawzall of death too now....

Can't find any OBVIOUS entry wound.....I might pee it out , or cough it up..... was a memorable day for hand injuries...swollen finger, couple of hot angry little cuts , a burn. Nothing got mangled in the dismantlement but I do have to get it stripped down and off the truck hopefully sneak it into the back yard behind the shed out of eyesight or at least where it can't be seen from the kitchen and regarded as an eyesore


I spoke to Wayne Mumford a month or so ago. He bought Russell out and has remotored the tank with a 2litre Toyota which has been "built".......he's been having a little rest from the DLRA but has built a trailer and will be there next year, it'll go fast.
...few understand what I'm trying to do , but they vastly outnumber those who understand why..

momec3
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Re: Commodore Valuables

Post by momec3 » Thu May 26, 2011 3:39 pm

Its fairly obvious what you've done here Doc.
Just to get your thread over the 100k hits you had to go and buy a Ford. :wink:

Plasma cutter? For your hole issues??
Chris

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Dr Goggles
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Re: Commodore Valuables

Post by Dr Goggles » Thu May 26, 2011 3:44 pm

momec3 wrote:Its fairly obvious what you've done here Doc.
Just to get your thread over the 100k hits you had to go and buy a Ford. :wink:

Plasma cutter? For your hole issues??

Na the machine shop I went to sorted it....it broke a few tools , then they blew them out with the CIG method, now they're turning the inserts that'll slide into the Ford tubes and be a warmfit in the 10 bolt housing, they'll allow us to line the pinion up and also get a little "tilt" into it as well because there is a lower pinion to crown wheel height with the 10 bolt( part of the attraction) the rest we'll make up by juggling the engine/trans mounts.........
...few understand what I'm trying to do , but they vastly outnumber those who understand why..

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Re: Commodore Valuables

Post by grumm441 » Thu May 26, 2011 4:56 pm

momec3 wrote:Its fairly obvious what you've done here Doc.
Just to get your thread over the 100k hits you had to go and buy a Ford. :wink:

If you can get it up to 125 pages and 180,000 plus hits, then I'll be impressed

G
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Lynchy
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Re: Commodore Valuables

Post by Lynchy » Thu May 26, 2011 5:14 pm

Maybe we should mention Jaguar here as well. That's got to be worth a few more hits......

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Re: Commodore Valuables

Post by grumm441 » Thu May 26, 2011 5:32 pm

Or what was almost team SOS's pit bike
G
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Re: Commodore Valuables

Post by Dr Goggles » Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:55 am

Time for an update punters......this is all a re-edit of stuff that has been posted elsewhere...

I'll have none of this gip........

The idea is to use a V-Twin Drewfus, no not one of those expensive pump motors but maybe a Honda Firestorm or something similar like a TL....but anyway it'll be run transverse which means we only need about 600mm (2ft imperialists) from the back of the diff to the firewall . Having the closed tailshaft style diff means there is a spline which will be easy to adapt to run a short chain to the secondary that means we've got motor/box/clutch in one package, then we've got cable brakes, we can use the hand controls off the bike, even the twist throttle mechanism as the pivot for a pedal. There's a free biscuit for anyone who gets what I'm talking about there.............

I just went out and ran a tape over a few things.....then I sat against the wall and measured how much leg-room I thought I could get away with....

Now, from the pointy end it's just over 800mm to the small bulkhead, that's enough for the rear spring,rear end and motor assembly.
Image

From the small bulkhead to the nose is 1500 or so which means there's enough room for the spring, front end and steering ( 250mm front to back) and enough room for me to sit with my legs flat (1200mm).....

Sitting legs flat feels weird and takes away your ability to brace too but bending your knees leaves little room for a steering wheel so that is a compromise that will have to be made I reckon........It's going to be a better fit than I thought....


then back to the diff transplant


We got some way into the job to fit the housing for the ten bolt rear end.

After having a crack at pulling one of the inserts in last week we elected to have a closer look. It seems where the axle tubes were welded into the frame that they were pinched a little by the cooled weld. We took to that with a stone and then gave it a polish with a flap wheel, on the next try the progress was a whole lot more even.Next we had a look at the housing itself. due to the way things had to go together we needed to pull the inserts from inside the housing, that meant there had to be a clear path. Turns out that the machining wasn't perfect and the axle "hole" didn't line up exactly with the relief behind the bearing seat so there was a bit of de-burring and clearancing there too.

So, we've got a three foot piece of half inch rod with some 8.8grade 5/8 thread welded on either end and a bunch of thick washers, short pieces of pipe and other assorted items to use as spacers.....

The idea is to pull the insert from the inside of the housing into the axle tube, the end of the insert that fits the housing is slightly larger than the end that goes into the axle tube, we put a chamfer on the step where the dia. changes just to stop it "ploughing" anything. Once we got both sides started we decided we needed force on both at once or it would just be a see-saw so we quickly knocked up another length of seamless tube with a bolt out either end and got started.....there was a bit of tension in the system at this point, and we had noticed that the "legs" which wrap around the axle tubes were pulling inwards...they're half inch steel....In the shot below you'll see the ends of the puller rods inside the housing, you may also notice that the washer on the right is buckling......

Image

The movement had been slowing, the force applied increasing......we paused to assess...."so,where is it moving?"....I gave it a few more turns and there was a resounding TWANG! followed by some tinkling of parts, the washer on the right had given up the rod pulled through the middle of it and the washer went flying, we figure from where it ended up that it went between the Reverends legs.......unseen.

Nothing was broken, the legs had popped back to straight. I figure we need to use a porta-power to push the inserts from within the housing as well as pulling them.

On a side we cut some nice holes to plug weld the inserts into the axle tubes, I think they are a leeeetle bit wide....hmmmmmmmm

All in all though we made slow but effective progress, I'm yet to research the availability/compatability of the universal joints on the tailshaft and haven't bothered working out whether we'll need to lengthen the tailshaft, if we have to shorten it there's gonna be problems, there is only about an inch and a half of tube, that means we can probably only shorten it 3/4 of an inch...... as it sits though it seems to line up pretty well(not perfect here but well within limits),


we have plenty of side to side adjustability, we need to do a trial fit to see that the stock Ford axles will be the right length with the centre in the centre or so to speak.

This is just another example of "you had to be there to understand why we did it this way".

it continued


I wandered out to the shed this morning and had a good stare at the job. Staring at the job has been an integral part of many things I have done over the years,in fact if it weren't for staring at the job most things I have tried would have reached a conclusion, successful or otherwise , much sooner. So, at that point I decided to do something.

I found a piece of packing that would maintain the distance between the housing and the rear "leg" as it was that gap closing that had caused everything to bind up and ended with the large TWANG mentioned in the last episode....In an uncharacteristic move I wired the piece of packing securely so that if it did let go I wouldn't be on the receiving end. I got a pair of calipers so I'd be able to see how much it was moving......

The first few swings on the pipe that I was using as an extension weren't promising, it didn't have the firm but even feel telling me it was moving....I thought "maybe the thread is a little tortured" so I went to the other end, that felt better...... I should have put the Torque wrench on it so I could give you an exact figure but it felt like close to a hundred pounds on the 12 inch wrench I had on it.

This pic shows from the left , the hole cut in the axle tube to plug weld the insert, the piece of scrap I use to make sure the insert pulled through the housing and the packing washers on the end of the insert....

Image

Something else I'd like to point out about this transplant job.

The way our rear end is mounted places a lot of stress on the join between the differential housing and the axle tubes because it is supported so narrowly. Rather than being supported at the spring pad as designed where the leverage against the housing would be minimal the support is in against the housing where it has probably twenty times the force at the wheel.Thus the rather heavy duty solution for attaching the housing to the tubes and the tight fit that we have gone with ......just in case.

Now, the Colonel turned up today and we got cracking .....He brought over a piece of 7/8 all thread which was an improvement on the 5/8 stuff I had....but he also brought the socket wrench of DEATH !..........sadly I didn't get a shot of it but it had a handle like a baseball bat...but wait ! there's MORE......it telescoped out to about twenty feet long...OK I didn't put a tape over it but it was pretty long.

we pulled the inserts out to where they covered the prepared holes for the plug welds at one end and cleared the reliefs for the bearing seat inside the housing..



You'll notice here we put a pinion in, but the point of this shot is to see where we pulled the insert through...and how it needed to be touched up with a burr because it didn't line up exactly with the hole bored for the axle tube....

Image

Here's one of the centre in place so we could measure the axle lengths accurately.... it turns out one is 40mm(inch and five eighths) too short and the other is about 40mm too long.....we'll be checking all available stock lengths before we get too carried away and get one shortened.......

Image

After that we thought we'd see how other aspects had panned out, like the tailshaft.......oh I forgot to mention yes, the Ford yoke fits the GM pinion spline so we can use the same universals we already had... our tailshaft was GM/Ford to get the M20 hitched to the BorgWarner Yoke.....as it now sits it seems that each part connects to one from the other manufacturer...GM box to Ford yoke to GM centre to Ford axles.....Anyway we bolted in the gearbox crossmember , put the tailshaft in the back of the box and bolted it up...fit?.....it's spot on.....

Image

.and from the other side.....gee whiz she's lookin' pretty rough and ragged...
Image


We stood there and stared at it a bit and then agreed that we should probably get the frame blasted and give it a proper paint. It was painted in a hurry in Jan 2007, since then there were a heap of changes and additions and then it went to the salt twice...more changes to the frame. I am the first person to praise the Reverends abilities as an artist but they don't extend to a 2 inch brush and some half expired enamel gloss. Every touch up since has been with a scraggy old brush , though really you'd think someone had done it with a broom.... Yeah , i've been guilty of some of the atrocities too. So , the Colonel and i thought "yep, time for a blast".....
...few understand what I'm trying to do , but they vastly outnumber those who understand why..

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