this year we cut up our leathers

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SPOOK
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this year we cut up our leathers

Post by SPOOK »

"BULLSHIT" you say, well its true. Just read the new motor cycle rules and number 7 c 2 says "No cloth or non leather panels are allowed" Simply, if you have bought a new set of leathers in the last ten years for safety reasons you would have bought a suit with body armour inserted around the knees shoulders and back. Also for safety reasons at the back of the knees there will be flexible panels not like the old leathers that bunched up behind the knees , sometimes stopping blood flow which leads to cramps. You will have perforated areas for ventilation and stretch panels for comfort. So all non leather stretch , mesh or perforated panels will have to be cut out and replaced and solid leather stitched in their place.I am told that the reason for the rule change was that somewhere in America last year a competitors machine caught fire and he was burnt. No other facts or information has been forth coming to back up the rule change. One cannnot comprehend this gross stupidity. If you object like I do have your say and also inform DLRA you want the wording regarding the modifcation of modern leathers back to an unsafe and uncomfortable state changed. An angry Spook signing off!!!!
hawkwind racing
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Post by hawkwind racing »

Russell ,I am very tempted to treat this post with the contempt it deserves , but I will desist and instead go through some historical facts and finish up with a general comment to all willing to read it .

look up this topic http://www.dlra.org.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=344

3/4/06 finished drafting new rules.the dlra constitution vests total responsibility for the rules in the chief scrutineer,if you remember I fought hard to have that changed to a committee at the last general meeting ,but a compramise was reached ,allowing a motorcycle bloke to have responsability for the MC rules and then in liaison with the chief scrutineer have them approved

11/4/06 Posted proceedures ( official) on how to contest the new rules (add, remove, or alter) I went into great detail how any dlra club member could do this ,I also posted my email addy my phone # and encouraged any and all to follow those proceedures if they had a complaint or what ever , I even emailed out to many a copy of the new rules

7/5/06 I posted that the 'new' rules had been accepted by the DLRA exectutive committeee and approved by the chief scrutineer and again encouraged members to comment and if they wanted to officially protest if they wanted something changed

These are the facts ,so all members have had since 7/5/06 to read the new rules , to contact me with any concerns they had , to post on here with any concerns and to officially protest and seek a rule change , that is 9 months and to date there has been ZERO , ZILCH,NILL,NOUGHT , NADA ,SFA, official rule change forms recieved by myself ,what I have recieved is some genuine emails and phone calls in which problems were sorted out ,but the majority have been bloody minded whinging and bitching , for #### sake get off your arses and send in a rule change form ,located in the back of the dlra rule book , I have spent a great deal of my time and efforts putting it all to gether at least have the common decency to play the game or even to give me a call ,many things can be solved this way ( yes including cutting up leathers )
Gary
fastest busa in Captains flat pop. 200
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BOB ELLIS
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Post by BOB ELLIS »

Geez Gary , don't beat about the bush , say what's on your mind!! I know where your coming from . i get queries from people that can't read too .The way i see things , rules is rules .Don't like 'em , don't race!! Cheers Bob #66 C/GCC.
SPOOK
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this year we cut up our leathers

Post by SPOOK »

Hawky. you are exactly right in what you say about the procedure for rule changes but have you considered all the new motorcycle riders who decide say late last year or early this year to compete at the Lake. they will arrive full of enthusiasm believing that the leathers they have raced in for years in all classses are totally safe and would pass scrutineering and would pass for DLRA then at the Lake they are refused entry. Believe me it will happen. And Bob its difficult for a young guy on a budget to be refused entry and then have to go home. Cheers Spook
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BOB ELLIS
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Post by BOB ELLIS »

Sorry SPOOK , not out to upset anyone , but Landspeed Racing is dangerous stuff . The rules are there to protect YOU , the other racers , the public , and the club's insurance (without it there is no speedweek). All forms of motorsport have rules , can't turn up at an NHRA or NASCAR etc , without complying to rules . Not out to discourage ANYONE!! but to go DLRA racing , follow DLRA rules . Spook , im not a MC guy by any means(got my first bike when i turned 40 -a QA50-1971 model) but safety comes first , if Gary & co make rule changes (updates etc) they only looking out for you two wheel fella's . Cheers Bob #66 C/GCC
hawkwind racing
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Re: this year we cut up our leathers

Post by hawkwind racing »

SPOOK wrote:Hawky. you are exactly right in what you say about the procedure for rule changes but have you considered all the new motorcycle riders who decide say late last year or early this year to compete at the Lake. they will arrive full of enthusiasm believing that the leathers they have raced in for years in all classses are totally safe and would pass scrutineering and would pass for DLRA then at the Lake they are refused entry. Believe me it will happen. And Bob its difficult for a young guy on a budget to be refused entry and then have to go home. Cheers Spook


Russel first let me state that my missive was not directed at you personally .
Secondly let me answer your questions
If any new rider decided to attend speed week for the purpose of racing ,I would take it as a given that they first read the rules ,if they just turned up it would be gross foolishness , many of my calls are from newby's and most are reasonable and we find common ground in sorting out their problems , some I cannot and say so ,it is then in their ball court to comply or not race , I have only refused one entrant the ability to use his vehicle and that was not done lightly ,the rules are there for all to comply with regardless wether they think them "bullshit" or not , it is equally open to all entrants to submit a rule change form if they are not happy
As the bike scrutineer it is my responsability to ensure that all bikes and racers using the race course comply with the rules ,firstly for there own safety ,and also for the good of the club ,I also have discretionary power to allow things to pass scrutineering that dont strictly comply :wink:

what I need is all motorcycle racers to send me in writing ( so I can act on them) anything that concerns them , Im sure the rules can be improved and im willing to oversee any worthwhile change
Gary
fastest busa in Captains flat pop. 200
ben james
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Post by ben james »

wow go off russ, i've still got your book too mate.
what gary said was exactly right. i flapped off my mouth a few months ago about exactly the same thing and did nothing about it. so this morning i pulled the rule change form out of my rulebook and am going to graham handley's workshop to do some work & have a chat about how to word the rule change application. graham helped gary with scruiteneering in 06. gary baker was wondering how to get a copy to you.
i'm sure this will be an easy rule to change. just a thing to remember don't use dubin on your leathers as it rots the sticthing & in the event of a spill your seams will come apart. you need to use a proper motorcycle leather treatment. i think something that either does or doesn't have silicon in it. will check it out with accessories guys at work next week & post answer on this forum. for those who don't know i work at peter stevens motorcycle workshop in elizabeth st melbourne & have access to all kinds of different info. anyway will wait to hear from you gary about where to send rule change form to.
regards ben
ben james dlra#389
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firemanjim
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Post by firemanjim »

We had this same battle with the SCTA regarding the "all Leather" rule. If you do a search on Landracing.com you can find pages of posts about it. It was a kneejerk reaction to a single perceived incident. There was no input solicited from any of the racers the new rule would impact. The incident that elicited the change was a rider had an oil line break on his bike and hot oil caught fire. He recieved some minor burns to his thighs.After a review of the incident--and this was straight from rider himself--it was determined he had received steam burns from the sweat under his leathers, not from any oil/fuel coming through his leathers and catching fire(as if!!). He would have received these burns no matter what sort of leathers he had --or maybe if his leathers had had enough ventilation(not currently allowed) he might not have been sweating and not received the steam burns.
We argued to no avail. The newer leathers almost always have better armor and protection that the all leather ones. I ended up with a set that was older and less protection than the set I had been using at Bonneville because that was the only way to find an all leather suit with minimum ventilation and no fabric--- I had to buy 2 sets as my son races also, so it was a financial burden and money that could have been spent on the bikes instead.
Most material found in newer leathers is going to be Kevlar and being in the fire service for 27 years now I will tell you this is much more preferable than leather if a fire is your fear. Leather absorbs heat and will transfer it to you, and it burns. The only leather left in our firefighting gear are our gloves and the helmets on some departments. All else is Nomex/Kevlar.
I think it is a mistake for you to blindly follow the SCTA's lead in this. The rule was poorly thought out and clearly little or no investigative work went into the technical need and details.
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Greg Watters
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leathers

Post by Greg Watters »

My leathers are also made up of breathable material in crutch and underarm , i figure its no big deal to have easily removable leather panels stiched over these area's.
Fairings could direct flame from undertank to chest, arms and face as i know i can often smell the engine blowby or stuff on the exhaust when head down behind the fairing .
gazza414
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Post by gazza414 »

firemanjim wrote:We had this same battle with the SCTA regarding the "all Leather" rule. If you do a search on Landracing.com you can find pages of posts about it. It was a kneejerk reaction to a single perceived incident. There was no input solicited from any of the racers the new rule would impact. The incident that elicited the change was a rider had an oil line break on his bike and hot oil caught fire. He recieved some minor burns to his thighs.After a review of the incident--and this was straight from rider himself--it was determined he had received steam burns from the sweat under his leathers, not from any oil/fuel coming through his leathers and catching fire(as if!!). He would have received these burns no matter what sort of leathers he had --or maybe if his leathers had had enough ventilation(not currently allowed) he might not have been sweating and not received the steam burns.
We argued to no avail. The newer leathers almost always have better armor and protection that the all leather ones. I ended up with a set that was older and less protection than the set I had been using at Bonneville because that was the only way to find an all leather suit with minimum ventilation and no fabric--- I had to buy 2 sets as my son races also, so it was a financial burden and money that could have been spent on the bikes instead.
Most material found in newer leathers is going to be Kevlar and being in the fire service for 27 years now I will tell you this is much more preferable than leather if a fire is your fear. Leather absorbs heat and will transfer it to you, and it burns. The only leather left in our firefighting gear are our gloves and the helmets on some departments. All else is Nomex/Kevlar.
I think it is a mistake for you to blindly follow the SCTA's lead in this. The rule was poorly thought out and clearly little or no investigative work went into the technical need and details.


Agree Jim...alot like many of the other rules ..not well thought thru to understand the consequences of the actions.
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gazza414
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Re: leathers

Post by gazza414 »

Greg Watters wrote:My leathers are also made up of breathable material in crutch and underarm , i figure its no big deal to have easily removable leather panels stiched over these area's.
Fairings could direct flame from undertank to chest, arms and face as i know i can often smell the engine blowby or stuff on the exhaust when head down behind the fairing .


You missed the point Greg that Jim made
1 FAST HAYABUSA 217.443mph so far
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Very much the apprentice
firemanjim
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Post by firemanjim »

Thanks, Gary. How goes things? Bikes ready for racing??
What is Wayne up to,he must be busy as can be as he never answers his e-mail. Give him a good kick for me, OK. I keep sending him questions regarding my adding turbo to my Sprint and about adding FI to my next gen Bonneville Buell.
gazza414
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Post by gazza414 »

Pm sent Jim
1 FAST HAYABUSA 217.443mph so far
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Greg Watters
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leather

Post by Greg Watters »

I understand Jims point , but also think hot oil would be a bugger to deal with on any material .
My answer was directed to anyone with perforated/breathable leathers
as a simple and reversable fix. however anyone with questions about there leathers should contact Hawkwind directly

Jim i half expected to see you at our fires this year, quite a few of your firefighters came over here to help, teach and learn with our fire situation.
firemanjim
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Post by firemanjim »

Greg, would have loved to have been sent over for your fires. We watched them on the news for sure. I would gladly have volunteered to have my department send me to help out--and visit a bit with some of you all. :wink:
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