New Rule Book

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Greg Watters
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Re: New Rule Book

Post by Greg Watters » Mon May 30, 2011 10:22 am

AuotonomousRX wrote:A few thoughts

I think that having Event Fuel would be another unnecessary thing to Organise at this point.

I suppose we need to look at the intent of the each Rule.

In the case Gas/Fuel classes are these Classes meant to draw a line between ordinary Pump Petrol for Gas/G and Racing Fuel (including Petrol based Race Fuel) in Fuel/F

or

is Gas/G a Petrol based fuel Class that includes Unleaded or Leaded Race Fuels in Gas/G and all others Ethanol, Methanol etc in Fuel/F Class.

To different approaches to the same issue

once this question is answered,

Maybe a simple List of "Approved" fuels in Gas/G,

and everything else is in Fuel/F Class might be a way to go.

Stay Cool

Pete RGV#866
The break between gas and fuel besides the definitive dc reading is simply is it a power adding fuel ... anything oxygenated designed for making more hp or alky fuels is fuel,
high leaded gasoline like c16 or the SCTA approved A8C (will be A8D this year) is not a power adder but a necessity on high compression competition vehicles .

personell would be required but filling in a designated area from a sealed approved container then sealing the tank would probably be the easiest way to do this
Probably need to do it one day just a matter of when, or delete the gas classes and have open slather on the fuels :?:

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AuotonomousRX
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Re: New Rule Book

Post by AuotonomousRX » Mon May 30, 2011 10:42 am

I was not sure about the difference that was why I posed the question.

So we will be following the SCTA Rules as they stand as far as Gas/Fuel Class eligibility.

I suggested the idea of an "Approved Gas" list to make it really clear to all of us what we can or can't run.

I am easy either way as long as the Rules are clear and simple.

I do think there should be separate Gas and Fuel Classes.

Maybe even a Pump Gas Class /G, a Racing Gas (Like VP Elf etc) Class /RG and a Fuel (power adder} Class /F?


PeteRGV#866
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RGV
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Re: New Rule Book

Post by RGV » Mon May 30, 2011 5:44 pm

So in the gasoline class we can run any street legal unleaded gasoline??

VP Roo100

Roo100 has been designed for competition use in 2 and 4 stroke motorcycle racing applications. Roo100 has been homologated by Motorcycling Australia for use in all disciplines of competition, as outlined in GCR 12.9.5 of the 2010 edition of the Manual of Motorcycle Sport. Roo100 is an oxygenated unleaded racing fuel with a MON of 91 + and a RON of 99+ that also meets the Australian Petrol Fuel Quality Standard making it street legal. Roo100 offers better protection against detonation in harsh racing conditions, makes up to 3% more Horsepower and Torque than pump fuel and gives you exact consistency so you don't have to alter you tune up from drum to drum. Due to Roo100's specific gravity (.711 @ 60F) and oxygen content it requires a 4% to 6% increase in fuel volume over most premium unleaded (non oxygenated) fuels.

* Color: Fluro Yellow
* Motor Octane 91+
* Research Octane: 99+
* Oxygenated: YES
* Specific Gravity: .711 at 60° F

Last Minute Racing
DLRA #928

2010 MPS/G 250 118 MPH
2011 Washed Out
2012 Washed Out
2013 MPS/G 250 131 MPH (RECORD)
2014 MPS/G 250 140 MPH (RECORD)
2015 MPS/F 250 DNF
2016 MPS/F 250 114 MPH (RECORD)
2017 MPS/F 250 DNF

BIG GAZ
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Re: New Rule Book

Post by BIG GAZ » Mon May 30, 2011 6:01 pm

That is all well and good but the rules state 'gas' has to have a DC OF 15.0 or less. Anything else and it turns to 'Fuel' class. I don't think it is the responsibility of the club to sanction any number of manufacturers gasolines and trying to keep abreast of product changes. That is the job of the distributor. I do believe we should have a calibrated meter though and will bring it up at the meeting on Sunday. Two types of gas/fuel is enough of a headache, we won't be adding another one.
GAZ

grumm441
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Re: New Rule Book

Post by grumm441 » Mon May 30, 2011 7:11 pm

Lynchy wrote:Gaz

I helped Dan do some capacity checks at Bonneville. We measured the Spectre Streamliner after he ran his record and one or two others. It was really quite simple and no heads were removed. I can't remember the name of the device but ANDRA probably use the same thing. Just remove the plugs, undo the rockers on one cylinder (the easiest one) and screw the tube into the spark plug hole. Wind the motor over a couple of rotations and do the math with the tell tale in the measurement tube. It took only a minute or two to measure once the cylinder was ready.

Lynchy
The air pumps aren't that accurate, and making an oil setup is easy
Kiwi Steve was telling me the SCTA also purchased a sonic tester for checking roll cage thickness
they only used it once, sent someone home, and didn't need to get it out of the box again
A bit like the DLRA's breathalyser
G
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AuotonomousRX
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Re: New Rule Book

Post by AuotonomousRX » Mon May 30, 2011 9:37 pm

BIG GAZ wrote:That is all well and good but the rules state 'gas' has to have a DC OF 15.0 or less. Anything else and it turns to 'Fuel' class. I don't think it is the responsibility of the club to sanction any number of manufacturers gasolines and trying to keep abreast of product changes. That is the job of the distributor. I do believe we should have a calibrated meter though and will bring it up at the meeting on Sunday. Two types of gas/fuel is enough of a headache, we won't be adding another one.
GAZ

Hey Gaz

I understand what you mean. I was just trying to put forward a few ideas as there has been some discussion about adapting the Rule Book to suit our OZ needs.

Some Motorsports do have Approved Fuel Lists, so I threw it in as an option.

I do not know what a "DC of 15.0 or Less" means. If I knew that "XX Brands ABC fuel" meets these requirements then I could use use that brand and know it was Legal. That is were I was coming from I suppose.

As it stands I will be using Premium Unleaded Pump Gas in the short term, but I will have to look at other fuel options as I make more Mods to my engine and the type of fuel I use will need to comply and be able to ward of the Detonation Demon :D .

Stay Cool

Pete RGV#866
Metric Target 250 on a 250 on a Red Bike

Pete :shock:
DLRA #866
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RGV
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Re: New Rule Book

Post by RGV » Mon May 30, 2011 9:53 pm

Hey Pete thats what i was looking for too "Roo100 offers better protection against detonation in harsh racing conditions"

Not pump fuel but still classed as gasoline although its oxygenated so im not sure.

Last Minute Racing
DLRA #928

2010 MPS/G 250 118 MPH
2011 Washed Out
2012 Washed Out
2013 MPS/G 250 131 MPH (RECORD)
2014 MPS/G 250 140 MPH (RECORD)
2015 MPS/F 250 DNF
2016 MPS/F 250 114 MPH (RECORD)
2017 MPS/F 250 DNF

BIG GAZ
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Re: New Rule Book

Post by BIG GAZ » Mon May 30, 2011 10:58 pm

And that is the problem, no one is sure what gas is ok and what isn't until we get more info on how to check DC. I will ask the question at the meeting and report back.
GAZ

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AuotonomousRX
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Re: New Rule Book

Post by AuotonomousRX » Tue May 31, 2011 7:07 pm

Thanks Gaz

Keep us informed

Stay Cool

Pete RGV#866
Metric Target 250 on a 250 on a Red Bike

Pete :shock:
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Greg Watters
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Re: New Rule Book

Post by Greg Watters » Tue May 31, 2011 11:39 pm

I would think as its oxygenated it would be a power adder and probably exceed the dc limit and be classed as fuel ,, but also in saying that i know the A8D control gas for Bonneville this season is mildly oxygenated , obviously within the regs , I have a drum of it here to tune to before putting the bike in the container ..


And as far as having a pump gas class and race gas class... why... there essentially the same thing except the slower burning & hi octane gasolines like c 16 will loose power compared to pump gas if the motor is not built to a std that NEEDS to run the higher octane.

momec3
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Re: New Rule Book

Post by momec3 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:00 am

Theres a huge hidden advantage in having an event "gas"
We all take too much so we don't run out.
An event supplier we only buy what we need when we need it.
We have $1000.00 worth of fuel in the shed we did'nt burn this year.
A central "safe" refueling point in the pits away from barbequees and cigarettes.
As long as its good race fuel and a known brand so competitors can buy it beforehand to tune we could all save money.

Chris
Chris

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Greg Watters
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Re: New Rule Book

Post by Greg Watters » Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:24 am

Yep $1k of fuel here too Chris , using up old fuel makes mowing the lawn rather expensive

hawkwind
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Re: New Rule Book

Post by hawkwind » Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:02 am

I have a proposition to put to the members at the next meeting regarding a fuel supplier and an event gas
gary
Vehicle......................A new creation.
Designed by................Troglodyte.
Engineered/ built by......Rustic.
Financed by.................Nickles & Dimes.
Rider......................... Tardus Vetus Inflatio

BIG GAZ
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Re: New Rule Book

Post by BIG GAZ » Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:09 pm

Gary,
Good to hear you are coming. I will put a note on the forum somewhere but I will be at the airport at 7.45am Sunday and hiring a car if anyone needs a lift to the meeting.
GAZ

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AuotonomousRX
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Re: New Rule Book

Post by AuotonomousRX » Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:22 pm

Greg Watters wrote:I would think as its oxygenated it would be a power adder and probably exceed the dc limit and be classed as fuel ,, but also in saying that i know the A8D control gas for Bonneville this season is mildly oxygenated , obviously within the regs , I have a drum of it here to tune to before putting the bike in the container ..


And as far as having a pump gas class and race gas class... why... there essentially the same thing except the slower burning & hi octane gasolines like c 16 will loose power compared to pump gas if the motor is not built to a std that NEEDS to run the higher octane.
I suggested a Pump Gas class to help keep costs down I suppose. It might suit some of us when we start LSR events. There is a lot to learn about this type of Motorsport. It provides a more level playing field for those of us who are new.

Mobil Premium Unleaded cost $32 for 20 ltrs and limits what Mods I can make to my engine. Might keep costs down.

As you say VP C16 is used so that you can achieve a much higher state of tune it costs $187 and and costs more to build an engine that needs this type of Fuel. It also needs a much higher level of tuning expertise to get the most out of these Race Fuels.

So I simply thought that a Pump Gas Class might suit those of us who don't have your level of knowledge and or budget. We can still maybe get a Record and gain knowledge on the way.

After a few years as we learn we step up and build a Hot Rod engine that needs C16 and try and have a crack at your Records, I suppose.

As I said I was putting forward some ideas that is all. The DLRA is growing and it might be worth putting some new Classes in to encourage new people to have a go.

Stay Cool

Pete RGV#866
Metric Target 250 on a 250 on a Red Bike

Pete :shock:
DLRA #866
SATA #49

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