record breaking cars meeting class rules

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sparky
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record breaking cars meeting class rules

Post by sparky » Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:09 pm

below is an e-mail that I had written to Street Machine and then forwarded to Cled , Max Ellery , Wayne Pickles and Peter Noy .


I was just writing regarding your latest article on the 2010 DLRA speed week , I must congratulate you on another excellent story . The reason for this e-mail is my gripe with the the DLRA’s lack of car class classification . I’ve spent $ 40,000.00 over the last couple of years building an E pro car , which seems to be a waste of time and money .

I refer particular to Max Ellerys E pro Commodore , the rules clearly state that a vehicle cannot run a non factory body kit , one that was not an option for that model , that it must have sold 500 cars of that model per year for every year production and have been available through any automotive dealer . A Group A SS only sold around 500 cars total and were only available from HDT dealers ( E/GC would be better suited or remove the kit and run production ).

The other car that was in your article was CV performances C pro HQ sedan , this car runs late model Holden EFI heads and Turbo pattern Holden block , none of these came STD in HQ. This constitutes an engine swap , also running nitro oxide if allowed in the class would move the engine up by two . ( A/GC would be better suited or no nos C/GC )

It comes down to why spend the money and follow the rules , when you can run what you want and get a record , a bit of parity would be nice I am sure this would not happen in the States .

Once again wicked story , I don’t think you could take a bad picture at the salt .

Best regards



Ps I ve also noticed since writing this e mail to street machine that Wayne Pickles c/pro runs a Dale Ernhardt engine , these engines run an aftermarket block and I believe SB2 cylinder heads , you can clearly see in any photo of the engine in this car that the head port inlet and exhaust location is different than standard , this at a minimum is an engine swap but the block cant be used in any production class

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Dr Goggles
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Protests.

Post by Dr Goggles » Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:31 pm

Hi Sparky,
If you want to hold the record then run your car and lodge a protest via the method set out in the club rules , it won't make you any less popular than getting a letter like that published .It isn't the scrutineers job to establish a vehicle's eligibility for class, they just scrutineer the safety requirements . Vehicles are entered by the entrants undertaking. .....

Write what class you are in on the entry form, put it on the side of your car. Now , if you think somebody else is laying claim to a record in the class you are running in and their car/bike doesn't fit the class then politely ask them to make this clear to the timekeepers. If they refuse to do so then lodge a protest

from the DLRA rule book...

2.9 PROTESTS
All protests must be made in writing using an official DLRA protest form. The completed Protest form must be given to a Contest Board member before sundown on the day of the race. All protest require a fee of $100 this fee is refundable if the protest is upheld.Protest forms will be available at the registration area.

Any deviation from the protest procedure will be considered an invalid protest.If a protest is properly filed with an impound official the Technical Committee shall rule on the protest within 30 days. If a protest is upheld the vehicle may not compete within the same class until modifications are made to bring the vehicle into class compliance.


So, if what you contend is correct any vehicle you protest against wouldn't be eligible for a record and yours, were it the fastest that had run that WASN'T disqualified from the class would, and it wouldn't cost you anything.

The DLRA is a club run by volunteers , Speedweek is a yearly battle against the elements and logistics. The event is characterised by a fun atmosphere and a largely gentlemanly code of conduct.

The money you're talking about certainly isn't peanuts , but it sure doesn't put you in the big league either. Bring the car out , run it hard and lodge your protest. Then you'll be able to stand on your back legs and say you have the fastest E/Pro in the country and no-one will be able to argue with you , but I would suggest that you would want to make sure it fits the rules ,exactly.

BTW welcome to the board.
...few understand what I'm trying to do , but they vastly outnumber those who understand why..

sparky
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Post by sparky » Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:38 pm

get what your saying , but I still think it comes down to who has the most money or mates in the DLRA wins a specialy when it comes down to one yellow Monaro

blownvn
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Re: record breaking cars meeting class rules

Post by blownvn » Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:37 pm

sparky wrote:

Ps I ve also noticed since writing this e mail to street machine that Wayne Pickles c/pro runs a Dale Ernhardt engine , these engines run an aftermarket block and I believe SB2 cylinder heads , you can clearly see in any photo of the engine in this car that the head port inlet and exhaust location is different than standard , this at a minimum is an engine swap but the block cant be used in any production class
Not sure about the rest of the cars but the picture I have of Wayne Pickles engine bay shows the typical sml block chev port layout with the two inner exhaust ports siamesed together.

As for "engine swap"? My interpretation of engine swap doesn't exclude aftermarket blocks as long as they maintain the same head/intake/bellhousing bolt pattern as standard. I don't know what black they've specifically used but i'm pretty sure it's legal. There's certainly enough people running in C/Pro that someone would have protested if it was illegal.

As usual, the good doctor's advice is sound.

sparky
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Post by sparky » Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:16 pm

dlra home page , speed week 2010 , page page 4 , row 5 , middle photo, thats not a standard Chev intake manifold patten !!!

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Dr Goggles
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billy goats gruff

Post by Dr Goggles » Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:39 pm

Hi Sparky,
as I said earlier..."Write what class you are in on the entry form, put it on the side of your car. Now , if you think somebody else is laying claim to a record in the class you are running in and their car/bike doesn't fit the class then politely ask them to make this clear to the timekeepers. If they refuse to do so then lodge a protest "

The implication is that you must be entered, by the same token I think most people here would think it fair that if you are going to make comment about other entries, that you have at least run.....competitively.

I notice you said you want to run in E/Pro, that being the case I'm not sure what your complaint about C/Pro is? There is no official procedure related to questions placed here, just advice. If you want to try and find fault with the way the club runs things just because you can people will tire of it pretty quickly, if it is an issue that concerns you and your entered vehicle I would be reasonably confident you will receive a fair hearing.

If as you say you have spent a lot of money building a car to run at the salt then busy yourself with those immediate concerns, and you can feel assured people will help you.

However , if it doesn't concern you I'd suggest you save your energy and leave it to the people who it does.
...few understand what I'm trying to do , but they vastly outnumber those who understand why..

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Lynchy
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Post by Lynchy » Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:28 pm

There's a right way to do things and a wrong way........

Starting arguments on forums is typically the wrong way. Do you think you're winning brownie points?

Do we have another Gordon D???

Lynchy

momec
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Post by momec » Wed Jun 23, 2010 8:03 am

Absolutly nothing like Gorden D Lynchy.

There are some good points above on both sides and I have been waiting for when we get enough competition in a particular class to see the protest process used. l think as Doctor G says any protest by a racer will recieve a fair hearing.

Chris
Acme Racing #251

sparky
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Post by sparky » Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:51 am

I am not trying in any way to start an argument more point out items I have seen on some cars and ask the question why nothing was done about it . Yes there is a protest system in place dlra rule 2.9 but I believe that to use this method would ostracize the person protesting . I think the better way to get around such problem would for the club in to enforce rule 2.8 vehicle inspection after record runs . I total agree that vehicle scrutineering is to make sure they are safe .

I have to say Lynchys comment / stereo typing is more pot stirring than health conversation about the above topic ( nothing good to say don’t say it at all )

The club ( dlra ) is going to spend good money on a new timing system , sending Bob Ellise to the States and updating the rule book , lets get the basics write to start with

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Lynchy
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Post by Lynchy » Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:55 pm

Maybe I should have spent a bit more time on my comments?

I obviously don't agree that starting off a discussion on vehicle class eligibility should be started by writing a letter to an unrelated publication. Why would you do that? What would this achieve?

There is a process for protests that can be followed if you don't agree with a record as already outlined. Is it perfect? No, I don't think so, but nobody has asked for it to be revised. This would be the place to start.

In defense of Sparky, if I was building a car for E/Pro and someone upped that record in a car that I felt did not fit the criteria, I would be upset. Then I would look at the correct way to protest this.... If in turn you don't like the criteria for protest then you can also raise this via the right channels.

I don't agree with disputing a car's eligibility 3 months after it has run because the car is no longer available to inspect. Photo's may be available but how can you be sure when they were taken?

You've eventually raised a valid point in asking for rule 2.8 to be enforced. Maybe you could have started here with that point before writing letters to editors?
I have to say Lynchys comment / stereo typing is more pot stirring than health conversation about the above topic ( nothing good to say don’t say it at all )
but then you started with this????
but I still think it comes down to who has the most money or mates in the DLRA wins a specialy when it comes down to one yellow Monaro
Lynchy

sparky
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Post by sparky » Wed Jun 23, 2010 2:01 pm

Yeah I’ll cop that , It was a bit of a knee jerk reaction writing to SM , I suppose I read the article and got fired up , then it steam rolled from there . The other thing being where do you start with something like this ????

The comment on the Yellow monaro , was a bit rough , I got the feeling Dr Goggles was trying to give this hole topic a sweep under the mat . but don’t take that the wrong way I do value his comments ( it will be interesting to see what class that car runs next year !)

So I would like ask for comments / opinion on rule 2.8

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Lynchy
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Post by Lynchy » Wed Jun 23, 2010 3:21 pm

Fair enough then.

I'd suggest starting here to get opinions, which is now happening, and then move on to management level.

The first question that will be asked though is - are you a member?

Regards
Lynchy

Rob
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Post by Rob » Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:00 pm

For what it's worth, I will be potentially running in E/Pro next year, did take a photo of the front of the car in question but didn't have access to any information on the lake. If I did have information proving it didn't comply I would first have approached Max for a polite chin wag, if that didn't end amicably I would have then filed a protest. I didn't have the info so shook his hand and congratulated him.

The rulebook states that a protest must be filed by sundown on the day of the race (though it does not say you must have raced nor even BE a racer to file a protest, you only have to be a member and shell out the $100). I didn't file the protest and will run against the 179.928mph record.

If the car turns up again with the spoiler,and I have documentation to prove it doesn't measure up... see paragraph one. :D

I do agree that no protest = no worries for a record is unsatisfactory, particularly given it's in the rulebook and a portion of the protest process requires handing the form to the impound official... I believe that if we are to be taken seriously both locally and at an international level, this is one of the items that needs addressing and again, I am happy to assist if and where I can.

I'm also curious Sparky, what are you building?

Cheers,
Rob

P.S. I also have asked about a similar situation at Bonneville and have been told, if no protest is lodged over there in the correct time frame and the record is subsequently ratified, the record stands.
I owe, I owe, so off to work I go.

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Cookey
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Post by Cookey » Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:57 pm

Spot on Rob :wink: :wink: :wink:
Suggest that "Sparky" looks at updating his DLRA forum profile to show more than his listed interest as "porn" :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Cheers,
Tony Cooke
DLRA # 363

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Dr Goggles
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really?

Post by Dr Goggles » Thu Jun 24, 2010 1:11 pm

sparky wrote:Yeah I’ll cop that , It was a bit of a knee jerk reaction writing to SM , I suppose I read the article and got fired up , then it steam rolled from there .
That's a fairly frank admission, but as I said ....is it your business?
sparky wrote:The other thing being where do you start with something like this ????
where you start is where I suggested and where Rob mentioned he would start, and he'll be running in E/Pro(too?) my exact comment was...for the third time...
"..."Write what class you are in on the entry form, put it on the side of your car. Now , if you think somebody else is laying claim to a record in the class you are running in and their car/bike doesn't fit the class then politely ask them to make this clear to the timekeepers. If they refuse to do so then lodge a protest " "

That is starting with a diplomatic way of dealing with it, if they refuse then lodge a protest and let the officials decide.

You said .."..."Yes there is a protest system in place dlra rule 2.9 but I believe that to use this method would ostracize the person protesting "

Mate, lodge a protest and maybe 50 people at a stretch will hear about it , street Machine sells more than fifty copies I'm pretty sure....I can't see your argument there
sparky wrote:The comment on the Yellow monaro , was a bit rough , I got the feeling Dr Goggles was trying to give this hole topic a sweep under the mat . but don’t take that the wrong way I do value his comments ( it will be interesting to see what class that car runs next year !)
Hey Sparky, I am not a "sweep it under the carpet kind of guy" and despite how it may seem to you nor am I part of the "inner sanctum" of the club. However I do have a car THAT CANNOT BE USED FOR ANYTHING ELSE, OR ANYWHERE ELSE, so I'm kind of protective of things when it comes to the DLRA. An entry in production class can be re-geared and run as a drag car or returned to the road...I'm kinda stuck with what we have so my investment in this vastly outweighs that of most people.
sparky wrote:So I would like ask for comments / opinion on rule 2.8
As it stands the club barely has the resources to run two way record runs, they are run off their feet scrutineering cars as it is, inspecting every car after a record is manpower they hardly have , as eveyone else has said,
lodge a protest. This comes under the bush reckoning principle of "put up, or shut up"

Once you've taken your car out there and run it, irrespective of what the result is your opinion on this will be a little more fine tuned, if you get my drift.

Thanks for listening folks. :wink:
...few understand what I'm trying to do , but they vastly outnumber those who understand why..

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