Record Updates

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Greg Watters
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Re: Record Updates

Post by Greg Watters » Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:26 am

Oh and the major work involved in checking the engine is not done by the tech guys its up to you to have it in a condition to measure, including removing the head if needed
This could be done anytime, windy day, end of meeting before your required to help with packup
start of meet before racing , actual testing is only a 10 min job

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BONES
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Re: Record Updates

Post by BONES » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:19 am

I've been through the records and found these to be I think entered incorectly.
Most are incorect class descriptions

P/PG 125 Paul Bushell 2006 68.006
MPS/VF350 Peter Vanstitart 2000 132.547 -- this seems fast for a vintage 350
P/G 500 Nigel Begg 2006 110.846
M/BG 500 Bill Brice 2005 106.022
P/PG 650 Don Shields 2010 154.690
M/VG 650 Chris Fraser 2003 100.741 -- M/G 650
M/GB 750 Greg Butler 2000 102.913
MPS/P 750 Max Hooper 2005 103.460
MPS/BF 750 Kim Krebs 2010 188.412 -- MPS/BF 1350
SC/P 750 Sean Kelly 2010 120.270 -- SC/G 750
P/PG1000 Scott Webster 2003 181.241
M/PSG 1000 John Pudney 2001 164.891
M/PS 1000 John Pudney 2001 150.20
SC/P 1000 Sean Kelly 2010 121.112 -- SC/G 1000
P/PS 1350 Brendon Collier 1999 130.942
P/PG 1350 Joe Amo 2006 198.259 -- P/P1350 remove. P/P 1350 Grant Schlein 2010 203.504. Jo rode Garry Peterson's bike
SC/MVF 1350 Dave Mclachlan 2010 147.423 -- SC/PF1350
SC/MVG 1350 Terry Prince 2006 113.293 -- SC/VG 1350
SC/UF 1350 Terry Prince 2009 137.028 -- SC/VF 1350

there should be a record for John Noonan in 1350 blown
I will contact those I know.
If anyone knows any of the others could they get them to contact me .
I will try to get this done asap
Hope I haven't trod on any toes

cheers Bones
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David Leikvold
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Re: Record Updates

Post by David Leikvold » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:11 pm

Maybe the rule could be that there will be no engine capacity measurement before Friday and people who want to claim a new record have to stay and help with pack up time (as Greg suggested) before the record counts. That might solve a few problems.
I remember reading years ago about a bore and stroke checker that just needed a spark plug removed but I can't find any mention of it online. No idea how it worked either. Probably some kind of long stroke electronic dial indicator that turned sideways when it went past the spark plug hole and connected to a remote reader. Stroke could be measured by a variation on the same design that didn't turn or just with a long vernier caliper. Anyone interested in designing and making one? Or, better still, does anyone know of a commercially available tool?

Cheers
Dave :D
Good, Fast, Cheap, pick any two!

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JonB
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Re: Record Updates

Post by JonB » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:14 pm

Dave

See pic from Grum in this thread of a bought one, only works on motors with the sparkplug centered on the bore.
Haven't used or seen one but looks like you would set it in the bore, collapse it, draw it out, expand it and measure it like a Tee gauge.


Cheers
Jon
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David Leikvold
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Re: Record Updates

Post by David Leikvold » Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:42 am

Thanks Jon, I hadn't noticed that link. Something along those lines would be good. I was, as usual, dreaming about something more complicated. If it was like a dial gauge linked to a computer it wouldn't matter where the spark plug was. If the tool was threaded into the spark plug hole and locked down firmly the inner workings of it could be turned through a circle that was actually an ellipse. The shortest reading, assuming it was just one prong, would be the real radius of the bore. Double that and there's an accurate bore measurement. I have no idea whether such a thing exists but I might just keep looking. There's a lot of data logging in circuit racing these days, especially relating to suspension movement. Maybe that's where to start looking, but just out of curiosity. If someone has set a new record and is suspected of being dodgy, pulling a cylinder head at the end of the event is not a big ask.

Cookey, I think you're right about the cheats only fooling themselves, but some unscrupulous people would do anything to be able to claim to be the best at something. The best example I can think of, and I'm not referring to anyone in the DLRA, would be the ubiquitous SBC. They can easily be anywhere between 265ci and 400ci and most people would be none the wiser. Just look for the bloke with all the desperate excuses why he doesn't need his engine checked and you've got the capacity cheat!

Cheers
Dave :D
Good, Fast, Cheap, pick any two!

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JonB
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Re: Record Updates

Post by JonB » Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:01 am

Dave

Do a www search for "cubic inch tester", they're not cheap though.
Looks like it would be simple to use, disable the valves of one cylinder, screw in the adaptor and wind the motor over.


Cheers
Jon
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Underhouse Engineering

David Leikvold
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Re: Record Updates

Post by David Leikvold » Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:38 pm

Thanks Jon, I checked on Google and found the Speedway Motors tool. It could hardly be simpler but as they point out, best suited to big pushrod engines and still needs the pushrods removed. My idea in my last post about an accurate radius for an off centre spark plug was wrong. Close, but wrong :?. I wonder what might work for DOHC 4 valve engines in production bike frames where space above the plugs is tight?

Cheers
Dave :D
Good, Fast, Cheap, pick any two!

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AuotonomousRX
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Re: Record Updates

Post by AuotonomousRX » Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:16 pm

According to "The Rule Book"

1.G RECORD RUNS:

1.G.1 One Way Record Runs

The DLRA recognises 2 sorts of records in this rule book, which have differing qualification
and participant requirements. The least onerous record is a one way record. This is the highest
recorded speed attained by a vehicle in its class. Vehicles under 175 MPH may be timed over
the short course, other vehicles will be timed over a flying mile on part of the long course. The
DLRA will automatically select the highest speed, and if it exceeds an existing one way record,
the rule book will be updated. A participant is not required to take any action for a run to be
considered for a record of this type
. These records are recorded in the rule book in normal
text.

1.G.2 Two Way Record Runs

Two way average records are established by a two-run average over the same relative or physical mile, depending upon course conditions. Only
the fastest average speed will be used for record calculation. The same engine block shall be used for the two-run average of each record attempt.
Qualifying runs that exceed the existing class record are considered to be the first leg of the record attempt. A qualified vehicle shall proceed
directly to the designated impound area and report to the official within 1 hour of the time stamp on the timing slip. Qualified entrants will have
4 hours from the time of check-in to perform necessary maintenance on the vehicle. Entrants should be cognizant of pit closing time and
be careful not to run late in the day if a full 4 hours are needed for maintenance. All impounded vehicles shall make the second leg of the
record attempt at a time to be determined at the event.
Vehicles completing a record attempt shall proceed directly to the designated impound area for certification within 1 hour of the time stamp on
the timing slip. If for any reason a vehicle is removed from the impound area, the record attempt is forfeited and the vehicle shall re-qualify. In
the event that record runs are cancelled for that day, eligible vehicles need not re-qualify.
After a vehicle leaves the starting line on a record run, any interruption, such as spins, loss of engine power, etc. will terminate the record attempt.
A two way record run is recorded in the DLRA Rule Book in bold text
If a DLRA sanctioned event has a designated gasoline/ diesel fuel sponsor, that sponsor’s product SHALL be used for all class record attempts.
All tanks will be sealed by an DLRA official or designee for all qualifying and record runs. Vehicles competing in fuel classes are exempt from
this requirement. A technical station may be used to assure compliance of the gasoline/diesel fuel.

1.H RECORD BODY AND CLASS CERTIFICATION:

All record-breaking vehicles shall report immediately after their completed record run to the designated area to be inspected by an appointed
official for compliance with body class, engine displacement, and technical requirements. Record-breaking engines shall not be removed from
the chassis prior to displacement inspection. Engine displacement measurement may be made with an DLRA approved displacement device if the
engine displacement is not within 3% of the upper or lower cubic inch break for the class. All other engines will be measured by direct
measurement of bore and stroke or swept volume.
All components shall be available for inspection upon request. Provision to attach a wire seal to the engine shall be provided by the entrant.
Following initial measurement and certification of the engine, a wire seal can be attached to the engine so that the engine need not be
disassembled in the event additional records are set. Engine seals shall be good for one year, 365 days.
Record-setting engines which cannot be certified by direct measurement of the bore and stroke or with the DLRA air pump may require special
tools. The entrant shall provide any special tooling required to measure an engine. The Technical Committee will certify special tools for
accuracy. Any engine that cannot be measured using the DLRA air pump or special tools will require disassembly for direct measurement of
cubic inch displacement.
After a new record has been established and there is a question as to the legality of the vehicle the Technical Committee has the authority to place
the record on hold or reverse the record.

So unless someone wants to go for a "Two Way Record" it is classed as a "One Way Record" according to the current Rule Book.

Personally I can take one of the Heads off my 2 stroke and get the Bore and Stroke measured (I can bring my verniers) and have one of the Base Cylinder bolts drilled and a Seal wired in place.
Then get the rest of my Vehicle checked for class compliance. I am happy to have this done before the Meeting and get the Seal and Vehicle checked at the end of each run.

It's much more of a Drama for most other Vehicles.

Pete
RGV#866
Metric Target 250 on a 250 on a Red Bike

Pete :shock:
DLRA #866
SATA #49

grumm441
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Re: Record Updates

Post by grumm441 » Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:28 pm

grumm441 wrote:
Greg Watters wrote:What about a swept volume calibrated liquid tube , still have to pull the cams or pushrods but better than pulling the head
and could encourage getting a motor sealed on partial assembly
That's my favorite
And very simple, although we did get thru a lot of ATF
G

So just to repeat Greg and myself.
The simplest way to measure an engine in a frame is to use a calibrated vessel (plastic container with cc's on it) filled with oil.
you disable the valves on one cylinder, screw a spark plug adapter into the head. Fill the vessel with Auto transmission fluid. turn the engine over until the fluid stops bubbling. and then you measure the CC's by subtracting the lowest reading from the highest reading. Seems simple.
For two strokes, you take the head off and use a vernier.

Two way record runs at Bonneville Speedweek are done in the same direction. The qualifying run is done and then you go straight to impound. The follow up run is done the next morning. Early
As far as I know, wee will not, at this stage be having an impound. Also at this stage, engines will be checked only on protest. on the official form, accompanied by $100.00 CASH

Dawn in impound at Bonneville.
G
Image
They make it
I make it work

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Greg Watters
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Re: Record Updates

Post by Greg Watters » Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:19 am

Best seen from your vehicle inside impound :D

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Dr Goggles
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Re: Record Updates

Post by Dr Goggles » Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:28 am

....there's something about that place....
...few understand what I'm trying to do , but they vastly outnumber those who understand why..

club animal
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Re: Record Updates

Post by club animal » Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:19 pm

As i watch with interest let me tell you what i no. over the years there has been many attempts to get this right the club hiraki have replyed that it is the onus of the entrant to enter into the appropriate class and if no one lodges an official protest within the set time they will not look at it , as for the swept volume measure one was made available to the club in 1998/99 by a Tasmanian member {dont no wear it is] To me its simple ask all record holders to read the records and honestly reply so we can get this strait , In the future Scrutineers should be checking if vehicals comply with class rules and any person wanting to claim a record would have there vehicle rechecked .When this is sorted we mite have one or two members with there nose out if joint instead of hundreds of members and observers asking are these blokes for real ?
Regards ANIMAL
Member 151
NAC 200+mph club
DLRA 200 mph club
going fast is my blast

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BONES
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Re: Record Updates

Post by BONES » Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:42 pm

Here we are again
I started this post to try and get the motorcycle records straightened out in 2012.
I will add a couple more which are incorrect-- 2015- rider 444 A-PF 1350 - 179.991. Should be 125 ish
2013- rider 444 APS-G 500 128.03 Should not exist. I rode A-G 350 that year.
The certificates are very nice, but the event is 2016 and the date is 3-26-2015-- Typo?
I think the idea is nice to have the certificates but is it necessary to have a certificate for attending? ie no record

cheers Bones

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DLRA
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Re: Record Updates

Post by DLRA » Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:23 pm

The results are compiled from the entry forms and the timers results.
My records show that you entered 2 different bikes.
Rider:444, Name:Dave McLachlan, Vehicle Number:444, Manufacturer & Year:Bones Speed 2013, Class:1350 A-G, Monday:0, Tuesday: 198.260, Wednesday: 0, Thursday:0, 205.632, Friday:0
Rider:444, Name:Dave McLachlan, Vehicle Number:9444, Manufacturer & Year:2014 TPV, Class:1350 A-PF, Monday:0, Tuesday:0.000, Wednesday: 0, Thursday:0.000, 179.991, Friday:0

Looking back through the timers records I reckon you must have had 2 runs on the A-G bike on the Thursday and that the 179.991 was recorded against the wrong bike. But I can find no record of a 125 run for the A-PF on the Thursday. Can you confirm this for me and I'll keep looking.

Thursday was the 26th March 2015, the Certificates were created using Word Mail Merge. They were converted to American date format during this process and there was absolutely nothing I could do about this.
Yes the 2016 was a typo, if you want a replacement certificate one will be provided to you, all you have to do is ask.

Checking your results from 2013 the class shown is APS-G 500, I've been through all my photos from that year and unfortunatey don't have one, which would have show the bike and more importantly the class details. Carol is away at the moment, so I don't have access to the entry forms (yes we do keep them) to check it. Lastly I will have to get Ross and Graham involved and see if they remember what class you ran.
Do you have any pictures of your bike from that year?
Having said all that this forum is not an official means of communication if you wish me to proceed I need you to fill in a Results Amendment form and http://www.dlra.org.au/docs/resultsamend.pdf and submit that to the office.
Keep the shiney side up........
DLRA WebMaster / Editor

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BONES
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Re: Record Updates

Post by BONES » Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:39 am

Thanx for the reply
I thought a typo.
The speed on the A-PF bike does not matter to me- no record-. But it should be taken out of the results.
I did have 2 runs on Thursday on the A-G bike, but had problems and pulled off before I got to the timers.-- so no time should be recorded
I did fill out a Results Amendment form some time ago. I will do it again for my records which are incorrect.

In 2013 I entered the APS-G 500 but did not ride it. I rode another bike-- A-G 350. Is there no adjustments , if necessary. of entries from the entry form if it differs at inspection?
I'll try and find a photo of 2013

cheers Bones

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