Water Injection

[grumm441]

When I saw that being pushed into tech I went WTF
But it was the real thing alright
G

[Zaltrennwagen]

The gull wing used a different head which has the spark plugs in it

Not sure where the plugs are on this one!

Was that John Fitch's Car?

Racing m198.jpg (133.72 KiB) Viewed 874 times

Spark plugs are under the coils on the opposite to the throttle bodies. looks like EFI instead of MFI .

[Zaltrennwagen]

A diesel ? water injection isn't going to work with the Diesel but i guess you know that...

Excuse me, maybe It's the way I wrote it, I wasn't saying I'm going to do it as a diesel, merely that I'm going to use (modified) diesel type injectors as used on late model common rail diesels that require no shielding from combustion heat and pressures. My first love is methanol, but I'm going to trial it on my road bike, so it will probably be petrol.... to begin with...

Having said that, I'm actually sure that if it were done in a properly controlled way it could work on a diesel...

I'm guessing here you're possibly thinking water in the combustion chamber of a diesel is going to raise cylinder pressures to a point where a hydraulic-ing condition would cause rods to bend etc...

I contend (with no real evidence to back it up other than many years experience tuning and building diesels) that well atomised water introduced into the combustion chamber after the point of maximum cylinder pressure (ie: after the fire event has occurred and the piston is on the way down) would substantially lower exhaust gas temperature - which is one of the bug-a-bears of maximum horsepower potential of a diesel.

.

No, what i meant was that you do not cool the air intake on a diesel because it is the heat from the compressed air ( on the compression Stroke) which ignites the diesel charge. You don't want to cool the intake charge down. Being in Australia I guess you have never had to try and start a Diesel in freezing conditions,but i have,both at sea and in Russia in 1998 when it was almost -40C. i was giving a relative a hand to get a truck started (mercedes Actros with block heating etc ).
Check out this to see what cold intake air dies to a diesel . It's a Napier Deltic . If interesting engines turn you on you will like the Deltic concept.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv_cGG56QA4
Exhaust gas temp isn't the issue at all, but the power stroke is where the ignited fuel charge is working and again,it's not the place to introduce cooling .
This why turbo charging is the accepted method on Diesel power. The exhaust heat energy is utilised to drive the exhaust turbine and pressure charge the intake/scavange air.
just a poinmt on this, adding LPG to a diesel instead of water injection has the same effect as water injection does to a petrol engine. Almost like NOS

[Last Minute Racing]

Yep that is unusual. Like a Commer Knocker but different. Well not really.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Napie ... _large.gif

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Oppos ... engine.gif

Thanx
Dave

[Raging Bull]

No, what i meant was that you do not cool the air intake on a diesel because it is the heat from the compressed air ( on the compression Stroke) which ignites the diesel charge. You don't want to cool the intake charge down. Being in Australia I guess you have never had to try and start a Diesel in freezing conditions...

Exhaust gas temp isn't the issue at all, but the power stroke is where the ignited fuel charge is working and again,it's not the place to introduce cooling .
This why turbo charging is the accepted method on Diesel power. The exhaust heat energy is utilised to drive the exhaust turbine and pressure charge the intake/scavange air.
just a poinmt on this, adding LPG to a diesel instead of water injection has the same effect as water injection does to a petrol engine. Almost like NOS

Righteo then, you believe whatever you want to... But you won't find any of that in INDUSTRY STANDARD Trade training text for apprentices...

The workshops where I work, we don't even hire unqualified people, let alone listen to their opinion and OBVIOUSLY from merely the few lines you write, your're not trade qualified....

And I'll hold my tongue and NOT tell you what I would say to one of the many apprentices I've been involved with training at trade school if they wrote any of that in an exam essay....

[Last Minute Racing]

No, what i meant was that you do not cool the air intake on a diesel because it is the heat from the compressed air ( on the compression Stroke) which ignites the diesel charge. You don't want to cool the intake charge down

So please tell me why we run intercoolers on turbo charged diesels??

Thanx
Dave

[Dr Goggles]

I don't have a dog in this barney, but I love Bruce Crower's thing....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crower_six_stroke

[Zaltrennwagen]

No, what i meant was that you do not cool the air intake on a diesel because it is the heat from the compressed air ( on the compression Stroke) which ignites the diesel charge. You don't want to cool the intake charge down

So please tell me why we run intercoolers on turbo charged diesels??

Thanx
Dave

Good point . I don't know who "we' are but on real working diesels as opposed to car engines ,the turbo is used to supply extra air under pressure, this pressure of course heats the air . (feel your air compressor pump,it's hot right? ) . Add Hot intake air at 180C to a engine which operates at 80C you are headed for major problems so the compressed air must be cooled to prolong engine life . Disconnect the turbo intercooler on a small high speed diesel and you will create problems.

[Zaltrennwagen]

No, what i meant was that you do not cool the air intake on a diesel because it is the heat from the compressed air ( on the compression Stroke) which ignites the diesel charge. You don't want to cool the intake charge down. Being in Australia I guess you have never had to try and start a Diesel in freezing conditions...

Exhaust gas temp isn't the issue at all, but the power stroke is where the ignited fuel charge is working and again,it's not the place to introduce cooling .
This why turbo charging is the accepted method on Diesel power. The exhaust heat energy is utilised to drive the exhaust turbine and pressure charge the intake/scavange air.
just a poinmt on this, adding LPG to a diesel instead of water injection has the same effect as water injection does to a petrol engine. Almost like NOS

Righteo then, you believe whatever you want to... But you won't find any of that in INDUSTRY STANDARD Trade training text for apprentices...

The workshops where I work, we don't even hire unqualified people, let alone listen to their opinion and OBVIOUSLY from merely the few lines you write, your're not trade qualified....

And I'll hold my tongue and NOT tell you what I would say to one of the many apprentices I've been involved with training at trade school if they wrote any of that in an exam essay....

Strange attitude you have for someone who claims to have trained apprentices .
But I'm trade qualified ,I am also tertiary qualified in Diesel Engineering which required me to have practically trained on GM EMD ,Roll Royce,Gardiner,General Electric, And a myriad of other engines you will never have seen or heard of in marine Applications ,Diesel Electric locomotion (as used in mining plant ,Terex etc ) and a lot of engines where the Turbo was big enough for me to stand in the opening while replacing the housing bolts. This was possibly before you were born . The smallest I worked on while serving my apprenticeship (Yes i am trade qualified having been indentured for 4 years ) were Caterpillar V12 DTA's and 1500 HP two stroke EMD V12's as used in locomotives, Oil well drives,power stations and US landing craft. The largest were 20,000 HP marine low speed turbo charged marine diesels running on bunker oil . I spent 5 years obtaining my 2nd class marine engineers cert ,plus in shore coastal motor cert. and inshore skippers ticket with navigation. I trained in engine design before computor aided design, I trained in the design and rebuilding of injection pump design and spent time in 2 different companies fuel rooms rebuilding injection pumps and can count as friends a lot people in this industry world wide. I also held a 1st class welding ticket and I did time in the machine shop learning machine operation . I see you are in WA, I have old mates running engine rooms in the tugs off the WA coast as I write this and some were working on the railway locos at port Hedland until retirement.
So now that i'm retired I don't really care for some bloke in a rebuild shop 'dissing ' a guy he has never met because his idea for working an engine has a minor detail questioned . Try replying to a query in civil manner ,it helps sometimes. and we could both learn . If you really did serve an apprenticeship you would have been told a dozen times that you never stop learning. right?
Automotive diesel engines are mere toys in the real world of Diesel engineering , but what do i know ?,you have already told the world I don't know what i am talking about haven't you.
never mind mate,life is too short to worry about shit,I learned that long time ago and just like some other prick said this week,it 's all water off a ducks back

[dave leaney]

*

[Last Minute Racing]

So if its not BIG its not worth mentioning? "Automotive diesel engines are mere toys in the real world of Diesel engineering"
I am also a Trade Qualified mechanic, but im not worth shit by the sound of it because i only did my apprenticeship on outboard motors .
I love working on small high performance machines and the idea of a 20,000 HP low speed engine running on bunker oil might float your boat but not my small boat.
I could go on for ages about how i have built Australian class winning outboard motors, and worked in mines and oil fields on BIG trucks but i wont.
As for the "I don't know who "we' are but on real working diesels" comment, CHILL OUT.

Thanx
Dave

[ROSS BROWN]

This was my dog "DIESEL"
Ha could run really.... really...... really..... fast...
He had pink skin ,, and us kids reconded it was from him drinkin the diesel that leaked out of Granmas truck.
But Dad said that it was because he was blessed and he had the mainger
Appart from being able to run really .... really .....really.... fast'
That dog could "PISS "
It seemed like he could piss for ever ,some times he could "piss" a gallon and a bit



Granma used to keep a stop watch in the truck .... no one new what for.....
But anyway ,, one day us kids let Diesel drink as much Diesel and water as he could and then took him to the local pissing
contest. The contest was over time and amount. So us kids pinched Granmas stop watch for the day so as there could be no cheating
"DIESEL broke his personal records that day of one gallon and a quater....... and....... 4minutes and 48.6 seconds
Diesel won for time that day
But Martin from up the road got two gallons of piss out of his stinkin "COW"

TODAYS USELESS INFORMATION BOUGHT TO U BY ........ RMJ Brown.

[gazzas landy]

Ross,i reckon i could give diesel a good pissing contest. Cheers F.G.

[outbacktrev]

There you go Ross cracking me up again

[Lynchy]

and from the expression on the dog's face.... he had been putting up with Ross for way too long!