Two way runs for 2019

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Re: Two way runs for 2019

Post by DLRA » Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:08 pm

Graham Scott wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:01 pm
Although a "one hit wonder", would it be possible to have the record for my car, as set in 2016, added to the record list before they are all scrubbed? Pointless, I know, but possible?
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G'Day Graham, have you made me aware of this before? I'll have a look at it tonight.
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Re: Two way runs for 2019

Post by gennyshovel » Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:55 pm

Thanks Greg,
I was getting confused with FIA two run records :oops:
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Re: Two way runs for 2019

Post by DLRA » Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:59 pm

I should have also said that any confusion with FIM National or DLRA Australian records are defined by the class structures in use by either organisation.
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Re: Two way runs for 2019

Post by Graham Scott » Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:54 pm

Greg , no I have not mentioned it to you. I often read whats on , on the forum, but very seldom do I add to it. I was made aware of this when I looked at the info in the programme for this year's event.
Graham.

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Re: Two way runs for 2019

Post by DLRA » Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:44 pm

G'Day Graham, 2018 program was wrong and 2018 Pre-Entry web page was wrong, this has been updated now.
But the records page was right, your profile page was right.
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Re: Two way runs for 2019

Post by redyammy » Sat May 26, 2018 12:03 pm

while the old records need to be kept for posterity I feel that if we are to go 2 run average records a line should be put under the old records and the new 2 run averages should be kept separately.
that would mean every class being run next year would effectively be vacant and would be setting a new record
Would give a clean sheet and get rid of any old dodgy records that may be on the list

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Re: Two way runs for 2019

Post by DLRA » Mon May 28, 2018 9:08 pm

All two-pass / average records will have a set minimum.
It will either be the same as the existing one-pass record or say 5mph less than the one-pass record.

If we had them all open, then everyone who runs on the Monday qualifies to run for the record on the Tuesday.
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Re: Two way runs for 2019

Post by DLRA » Mon May 28, 2018 9:15 pm

Also we are writing in an exception for vehicles where there is multiple drivers / riders. If they qualify they will still have to go to impound to be checked and tagged or whatever, but can then attempt the record the same day. Note, this is only for vehicles with multiple drivers / riders.
Everyone else goes to impound and makes their record attempt the next morning.
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Re: Two way runs for 2019

Post by Stayt`ie » Mon May 28, 2018 9:24 pm

What will be the deal regards "Red Hats" ?,, will folks be elegiable for a Red Hat on a one way pass over the record, or will thay get a hat with setting the record ??,,
I am in favour of the hat only if you set the record ,,

I would also suggest that the Hats bear a marking that distinguishes them from previous "Red Hats" :)
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Re: Two way runs for 2019

Post by DLRA » Wed May 30, 2018 11:44 am

Current rules state;
To be eligible for the 200MPH Club, the competitor must have exceeded 200MPH whilst setting a new record for their class.

The DLRA also wishes to recognise each of those competitors who have achieved 200MPH for the first time. In recognition of their achievement they receive a special DLRA "red hat with black visor".

Records from 2019 are based on a 2-run average speed.

The only change here will be for achievers where the sentence will change to -
The DLRA also wishes to recognise each of those competitors who have achieved 200MPH average for the first time.
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Re: Two way runs for 2019

Post by hawkwind » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:50 am

Has any further progress been made on how this change over will be made?
My thoughts
1. Cease 1 way runs altogether and grandfather the results.
2. As we are starting a new regime of 2 way runs all records will be open, here is where I have some concerns ....Ideally the whole record book would be open.No existing records from the one way runs should be used to set a starting point for the new records,as this would be comparing apples to oranges and frankly setting the starting bar to high for most. I understand present record holders wishing to keep their records, but they would still hold forever their one way records, I also understand that for the first few years of the 2 way records things would be very hectic as every run would be a possible record and much time would be taken in back up runs but isn't this how we started the 1 way runs ( set from a o mph point) this would be my preferred option it would be fair and open to all contestants hereafter, I also note another option as used by the SCTA 200 club of arbitrarily setting a speed as a starting point for any vacant record but again they use existing 2 way records and expolate what in their opinion is a fair starting point, not trying to do the same with a one way record.

I here on record place my strong objection to using all one way records as the new starting speeds for as yet uncontested 2 way runs ( if this is the way the club committee chooses) ....besides being the quick and lazy method to set starting speed records, one way records are different to 2 way records for many reasons, they are easier to set and if our present 1 way records are the best efforts we have achieved to date, breaking them will be a tough cooky to crack. Just let the new records evolve as the previous records did from a zero base line.
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Re: Two way runs for 2019

Post by DLRA » Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:28 pm

As they say in the classics, hawk, I have some good news and some not so good news.

I was saving this up for a news release in the near future, but seeing as how the question has been asked, now is as good a time as any

Firstly let me say that what has been decided was not done in haste, there was several committee meetings, a general meeting and the concept was put out there in the newsletter, on the forum and Facebook for members to comment. After that lengthy process we have had to make several decisions based on all that feed back, because there is a whole heap of other work that falls out from that, particularly the 2019 Rulebook which we are finalising as we speak and new volunteers and procedures for them.

As you say, to start again from scratch and have all records open would be a huge headache as for 2019 every vehicle would end up in impound and on it goes from there. After being mentioned, this was never considered by the committee or any other group as an option.
I did put forward knocking off 5 or 10 mph from existing records, put this was resoundingly condemned as being an insult to existing record holders.

There were only 2 emails received where competitors were citing hardship if we rolled over existing to be the qualifying speed for 2-run average records. One bike and one car, so the objections were hardly seen to be overwhelming. Both of those people have already moved on and are planning their campaign for 2019, one will be competing in a new class, the other with a new vehicle.

Where possible we have based the new rules for Australian (two-run averaged) records on the SCTA-BNI process. So as to make it as familiar as possible and also to let comparisons be made, even though there are other things that are different as we all know.
The main change that was as a result of feed back, will be unique to us is where there are multiple riders or drivers of a vehicle, they will have the option to forgo the night in impound and and make their record attempt in the same day. They will still have to go to impound, get their vehicle checked and then go to pre-stage, they will not be permitted to return to their pit.
I've already had one nomination for an Impound Officer.
http://www.dlra.org.au/tasks/task-techn ... fficer.htm

With the change to Australian (two-run average) records comes the introduction of an impound, so for the 12-15 odd competitors who do break a record each day, their processes will change. I have already prepared a job description for our Impound Officer and reading that should give you a good idea of how it will run.
I have also been working with the timers to identify what changes will be required to the timing system. The programming for this has now been spec'ed and approved.
There may be some minor changes for Pre-Stage for team vehicles.

With the SCTA-BNI rules the two runs must be consecutive runs, we haven't decided yet if we will adopt that or allow entrants to use the speed from a third run combined with there first run for a record. This may make it a bit easier for some.

I will be repeating this and more information via all our communication channels when the 2019 rulebook is published.

Here is the wording that will be included in the Rulebook.

1.G. RECORD RUNS: 
• Records are established by a two-run average over the same relative or physical mile, depending upon course conditions.
• Only the fastest average speed will be used for record calculation.
• The same engine block shall be used for the two-run average of each record attempt.
• Qualifying runs that exceed the existing class record are considered to be the first leg of the record attempt.
• A qualified vehicle shall proceed directly to the designated impound area and report to the impound official within 15 minutes of the time stamp on the timing slip.
• Qualified entrants may have 4 hours from the time of check-in to perform necessary maintenance on the vehicle.
• Entrants should be cognizant of pit closing time and be careful not to run late in the day if a full 4 hours are needed for maintenance.
• All impounded vehicles shall make the second leg of the record attempt at a time to be determined at the event.
• The only exception to the 4-hour rule is where there are multiple entrants using the same vehicle. In this case the entrant must still return to impound for inspection and upon clearance and receipt of a pass, they may return to pre-stage to attempt a record
run. Under no circumstances are they to return to their pit.
• If for any reason a vehicle is removed from the impound area, the record attempt is forfeited, and the vehicle must re-qualify. In the event that record runs are cancelled for that day, eligible vehicles need not re-qualify.
• After a vehicle leaves the starting line on a record run, any interruption, such as spin, loss of engine power, etc., will terminate the record attempt.
• All tanks will be sealed by an DLRA official or designee for all qualifying and record runs. Vehicles competing in fuel classes are exempt from this requirement. A technical station may be used to assure compliance of the gasoline/diesel fuel.
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Re: Two way runs for 2019

Post by AuotonomousRX » Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:40 am

Looking good Greg.

Just a couple of observations.

"• All tanks will be sealed by an DLRA official or designee for all qualifying and record runs. Vehicles competing in fuel classes are exempt from this requirement. A technical station may be used to assure compliance of the gasoline/diesel fuel."

I have an Oil Tank for my 2 Stroke Oil Injection will that be sealed or should that read All Fuel/Gas Tanks?

What is happening with Engine Capacity Measurement, is that going to happen? It is mentioned in the Impound Officer description.

If we are doing it, will the Engine get Sealed during the first trip to Impound and then checked after the Entrants last pass with any Record set being "pending" until the Capacity is measured and verified?

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Re: Two way runs for 2019

Post by Stayt`ie » Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:08 am

Ummmm, so with mutipal enteries using the one vehicle,, each rider/driver can only make their indivuial qualifying pass on the day, then all front the next morning for record return run :?:
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Re: Two way runs for 2019

Post by DLRA » Sat Aug 25, 2018 12:37 pm

I have an Oil Tank for my 2 Stroke Oil Injection will that be sealed or should that read All Fuel/Gas Tanks?
It's only gas classes that get checked, I'm assuming they would seal your oil tank as well/
What is happening with Engine Capacity Measurement, is that going to happen? It is mentioned in the Impound Officer description.
If we are doing it, will the Engine get Sealed during the first trip to Impound and then checked after the Entrants last pass with any Record set being "pending" until the Capacity is measured and verified?
Yes, we could put a seal on it when it qualifies, but if it doesn't leave impound before the next morning, hardly worth it. If it has multiple riders, it would definitely get sealed and checked at the end of the week.
So if you look at the Record Certification Sheet on the Impound page, you will see that the record can't be certified until the capacity is checked.
We had to buy the necessary displacement measuring devices for the World Speed Trials and they were used there.
We have 2 types of seals, a wire one and a sticky one.
But we are certainly not going to make anyone tear down an engine mid-week.

What we will be offering shortly for Victorian Entrants is a pre-event inspection service. We have a member in Melbourne who is an engine re-builder by trade and travels all over Melbourne, he is prepared to check displacement (has all his own gear) and seal an engine prior to the event. Obviously you would have to be prepared to bolt the head down there and then, so that the seal could be fixed. Be looking for similar set-ups in other States.
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